The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have worked a lot testing all sorts of polymers with solvents and I really think the alcohol problem at such an extremely low concentration is near negligible. Even so - to be super-safe - for all my decent records I use baby shampoo, which has most of the detergent power of washing up liquid but contains no alcohol. Seems the perfect solution to me.

I still use washing up liquid on records that are really dirty and worn. The worst that could happen is that the shellac surface may swell very slightly, but return to its original dimensions as the alcohol evaporates and migrates back out of the material. There might be an infinitesimal annealing/smoothing effect on the surface microscopically, which may even be slightly beneficial for worn records, but I doubt even that would happen at such low concentrations.

Shlomo wrote, "Which is why I've preferred to use the "standard" soap and water method when I have a large batch of records to clean."

No alcohol in this dish liquid, that I can find, at least:

Seventh Generation Free & Clear Dish Liquid

http://shop.seventhgeneration.com/free- ... detergent/

(Data sheet at the bottom of the page. Note that the one ingredient you may not know, benzisothiazolinone, is not alcohol, but rather a biocide).

Indeed, this product is what I use at home… for dishes.

But I do feel your pain. For example:

Doctor Bronner's castile soap contains Tocopherol.

https://www.drbronner.com/customer-service/ingredients/

Ecover Zero Dish Soap contains ethanol.
http://us.ecover.com/products/zero-dish-soap/
(see ingredients tab).

So you do have one apparently alcohol-free option, the Seventh Generation product. Moreover, the concentrations of alcohol in the other two formulations, and maybe even the Dawn product you are using, you may decide are so minor as not to be worth worrying about. It's up to you.

Best wishes, Mark

Thanks Mark. I may just try the Seventh Generation, or invest in another commercial 78 cleaner.

As for Dawn and Ivory and whatever other detergents with traces of alcohol in them, I believe they either have no harmful effects whatsoever or the harmful effects are negligible. But...neurosis...no point in fighting it, I guess.

Ok, that's it for my cleaning obsession. If I take it any further, I'll have to start obsessing about the history of some of the more desirable records I own and how previous owners washed them.

I'm certain the process looked like this for many:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agSC-dLNXXg

The drawer of my VTLA came full of great stuff.

I found this GREAT advice glued to the top of a needle box...
Kind of puts the fear of faint traces of alcohol in perspective...

To add to the above, gasoline was used by all the record companies to clean the record masters prior to the mid-late 60's. Gasoline was the only thing that would remove all the dirt, oil, etc. If you really want to shudder, Colt used to blue their gun barrels using boiling gasoline. Take that OSHA!

BTW Tocopherol in Dr. Bronners is Vitamin E. While technically an alcohol it is very far removed from the ethanol or IPA of concern, and is chemically very different. The amount of alcohol in dish liquid is so low so as to be a trace in the concentrated product. Most record washing solutions do contain a very small amount of ethanol to help reduce surface tension of the solution so the grooves get wetted down when cleaning.

I always have used Joy dish detergent. I have never had a problem with it of any kind.

Clay

I suppose a gallon of gasoline is probably cheaper than a gallon of dish washing detergent, and you can't put the detergent in the lawnmower...but I doubt my wife is going to stand for me keeping a gallon of gas in the cupboard to clean my records

Can't use gasoline, it now has alcohol in it!

Very true! And back then you could only use plain gasoline, not "Ethyl" due to the lead. The "old timey" gas was closer to todays jet fuel. Maybe United could offer a cool glass of Jet A instead of a chemically composed sandwich

Since I live in farm country I have access to "pure" gasoline. The Marathon station sells 90 octane alcohol free. This was great for using in my Packard Clipper '53. No longer have the car. Too many hobbies and not enough time!