The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Curt A wrote:Just a heads up... stay away from H-19's. Although the grill looks fancy, it is pressed sawdust and if dropped, it becomes a pile of small pieces. It is extremely hard to get rid of an H-19 because of it's ugly flat top cabinet, so unless you get one really cheap (under $100) or you somehow find yourself drawn to an extremely plain cabinet that looks out of place with it's over the top grill... look for something better, like a laboratory model which lots of people like and in this case, oak is better.

So where does the William and Mary fit into this hierarchy?

And I've noticed the H19 grills seem to change (as well as the legs) through the years. Makes figuring out what is what a pain in the rear!

BwanaJoe wrote:

Curt A wrote:Just a heads up... stay away from H-19's. Although the grill looks fancy, it is pressed sawdust and if dropped, it becomes a pile of small pieces. It is extremely hard to get rid of an H-19 because of it's ugly flat top cabinet, so unless you get one really cheap (under $100) or you somehow find yourself drawn to an extremely plain cabinet that looks out of place with it's over the top grill... look for something better, like a laboratory model which lots of people like and in this case, oak is better.

So where does the William and Mary fit into this hierarchy?

And I've noticed the H19 grills seem to change (as well as the legs) through the years. Makes figuring out what is what a pain in the rear!

Yes: the early "fleur-de-lys" grilles were soon changed because of negative feedback from dealers. The later H-19s used a wooden "shield" motif grille.

Bill

In defence of the Heppelwhite, H-19, I think it is a very attractive model, which is why I just bought it. It didn't hurt that it had a gold Dance reproducer too! I've always loved the fleur-de-lis grille and I got a good one that is intact. I also like the H-19's smaller size, which is just right for a smaller room or bedroom. It is true that there is another grille, the shield grille, for the H-19, but I still prefer the fleur-de-lis as it's the only grille that is sculptured rather than flat like all the other grilles. You said that the legs kept changing on this model. The legs never changed on this model to my knowledge. Frow says that the Baby Console, BC34, is actually the console version of the H-19. Edison certainly tried to have a furniture style to appeal to every taste in his Diamond Disc floor model line. If you don't like the Chippendale, there is the Sheraton, or the William and Mary, or the Adam, or the Umbrian, etc. Probably the most common Edison DD machines that you see for sale are the Chippendale, both C250 and C19, and the Baby Console, BC34.

Perhaps it is just the pictures but it looked as if they are perfectly straight on some H19s and very slightly curved on others.

W&M anyone?

When your Frow book arrives, you'll learn all about the W&M, along with many others.

George P.

We were all newbies at one time Joe and asking questions is the way to learn. And as you have found, there are some great folks here who are happy to pass along what they've learned over the years. It is one way to keep the hobby alive.

Clay

phonogfp wrote:When your Frow book arrives, you'll learn all about the W&M, along with many others.

George P.

I was thinking more along the lines of, "don't buy that model when you can get X" or "snag one if you can find it (and like it) because they don't usually show up!"

Does Frow talk about things like the H19 grill change in his book?

FloridaClay wrote:We were all newbies at one time Joe and asking questions is the way to learn. And as you have found, there are some great folks here who are happy to pass along what they've learned over the years. It is one way to keep the hobby alive.

Clay

And I'm trying to get my sons interested and curse them they way I did with classic cars. Such a bad influence...

BwanaJoe wrote:

FloridaClay wrote:We were all newbies at one time Joe and asking questions is the way to learn. And as you have found, there are some great folks here who are happy to pass along what they've learned over the years. It is one way to keep the hobby alive.

Clay

And I'm trying to get my sons interested and curse them they way I did with classic cars. Such a bad influence...

Clay

BwanaJoe wrote:

phonogfp wrote:When your Frow book arrives, you'll learn all about the W&M, along with many others.

George P.

I was thinking more along the lines of, "don't buy that model when you can get X" or "snag one if you can find it (and like it) because they don't usually show up!"

Does Frow talk about things like the H19 grill change in his book?

Ah. You're looking for market information. Well, the William & Mary (W-250/W-19) is a big, boxy, rather impressive cabinet, and was an Official Laboratory Model (having two mainsprings and a 250-size horn). Unfortunately, the W&M has about half the record storage space of the C-250/C-19, so its utility is compromised. It didn't sell anywhere near the numbers of the Chippendales, so it doesn't survive today in large numbers, but certainly is not considered rare among collectors. If you want substantive cabinet with Edison's top-of-the-line components, the W&M is a fine machine. Like so many antique phonographs, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Yes, Frow covers the grille changes in the H-19. You're going to love the book.

George P.