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Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:22 pm
by phonogfp
52089 wrote:NEFaurora wrote:Make sure that you didn't change reproducers either!...and that you are still using the same reproducer as with the 1st motor.
I thought that I would just state the obvious!
)
Tony K.
Edison Collector/Restorer
OK, I'll bite - what difference would changing the reproducer make? It's on a stanchion that doesn't move...
I too would like to read the explanation of this "obvious" tip!
George P.
Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:49 pm
by 52089
Jerry B. wrote:Kevin, Did the serial number of your first mechanism match the serial number on the ID tag? If so, you might want to consider keeping the correct mechanism with its cabinet or at least in reserve. Many big Amberola fans would rather have a lesser mechanism that matches over a better one that doesn't match. If I were looking at two Amberola 1A's and they were identical in every detail EXCEPT one is all matching and the other has a replacement mechanism, I would pay $500 or more for the matching one.
*
A good example are automobiles. Consider the selling price of a matching numbers 1967 big block 427 Corvette in comparison to a 1967 Corvette with a big block 427. The Corvette without the matching motor is worth tens of thousands of dollars less even if the condition is identical. An Amberola 1A is the Corvette of phonographs.
*
I'm interested to know what others think. Jerry B.
Jerry,
Duly noted and understood. The motor with the number that matches the ID tag is safely off to the side and has not been touched. It has a rather bad wobble though. Now that I'm getting to be more familiar with the workings, I may see what I can do with it, starting with replacing a belt that's definitely too loose. As you know well, these motors are heavy and awkward so that has been a deterrent.
And FWIW, my Dad had a 60 Vette that I often rode in as a kid. Sadly it was stolen around 68 or so.
Cheers,
Kevin
Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:43 am
by NEFaurora
"I too would like to read the explanation of this "obvious" tip!"
Explanation:
"Obvious" being that the bottom of his reproducer has to be "free floating" and not "stiff". If the bottom weight can only move up and down, but not side to side, It will cause the reproducer to "Skip". The bottom weight on the reproducer and diamond needle needs to be able to mode in ALL directions...otherwise it's skip-a-roo city!
That's all I meant..
Thought that was "obvious".... I guess not!
He's using a Diamond "A" reproducer there right? Is that not correct? .....but the Amberola 1 had lateral movement of the record as well though as the 2-minute reproducers were more stationary. I think that I can see why he might be having a problem there...Maybe too much movement rather than not enough movement...seeing how the Diamond "A" has move movement.
)
Tony K.
Edison Collector/Restorer
Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:23 am
by phonogfp
NEFaurora wrote:"I too would like to read the explanation of this "obvious" tip!"
Explanation:
"Obvious" being that the bottom of his reproducer has to be "free floating" and not "stiff". If the bottom weight can only move up and down, but not side to side, It will cause the reproducer to "Skip". The bottom weight on the reproducer and diamond needle needs to be able to mode in ALL directions...otherwise it's skip-a-roo city!
That's all I meant..
Thought that was "obvious".... I guess not!
He's using a Diamond "A" reproducer there right? Is that not correct? .....but the Amberola 1 had lateral movement of the record as well though as the 2-minute reproducers were more stationary. I think that I can see why he might be having a problem there...Maybe too much movement rather than not enough movement...seeing how the Diamond "A" has move movement.
)
Tony K.
Edison Collector/Restorer
So your tip was that the reproducer(s) should be properly adjusted and lubricated. That's good advice.
As to the type of reproducer being used, it wasn't shown, but it could be an "L," an "M," or a Diamond "A."
George P.
Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:31 am
by 52089
phonogfp wrote:NEFaurora wrote:"I too would like to read the explanation of this "obvious" tip!"
Explanation:
"Obvious" being that the bottom of his reproducer has to be "free floating" and not "stiff". If the bottom weight can only move up and down, but not side to side, It will cause the reproducer to "Skip". The bottom weight on the reproducer and diamond needle needs to be able to mode in ALL directions...otherwise it's skip-a-roo city!
That's all I meant..
Thought that was "obvious".... I guess not!
He's using a Diamond "A" reproducer there right? Is that not correct? .....but the Amberola 1 had lateral movement of the record as well though as the 2-minute reproducers were more stationary. I think that I can see why he might be having a problem there...Maybe too much movement rather than not enough movement...seeing how the Diamond "A" has move movement.
)
Tony K.
Edison Collector/Restorer
So your tip was that the reproducer(s) should be properly adjusted and lubricated. That's good advice.
As to the type of reproducer being used, it wasn't shown, but it could be an "L," an "M," or a Diamond "A."
George P.
Indeed excellent advice, but I can assure you the reproducer is fine. This is definitely a feedscrew/half nut issue. Either there is wear (or gunk) on the feedscrew that I can't see, or there is insufficient pressure from the half nut. I am tending to think that it's the feedscrew itself because the half nut makes firm contact.
I will post again when I learn more.
Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:51 am
by Valecnik
52089 wrote:phonogfp wrote:NEFaurora wrote:"I too would like to read the explanation of this "obvious" tip!"
Explanation:
"Obvious" being that the bottom of his reproducer has to be "free floating" and not "stiff". If the bottom weight can only move up and down, but not side to side, It will cause the reproducer to "Skip". The bottom weight on the reproducer and diamond needle needs to be able to mode in ALL directions...otherwise it's skip-a-roo city!
That's all I meant..
Thought that was "obvious".... I guess not!
He's using a Diamond "A" reproducer there right? Is that not correct? .....but the Amberola 1 had lateral movement of the record as well though as the 2-minute reproducers were more stationary. I think that I can see why he might be having a problem there...Maybe too much movement rather than not enough movement...seeing how the Diamond "A" has move movement.
)
Tony K.
Edison Collector/Restorer
So your tip was that the reproducer(s) should be properly adjusted and lubricated. That's good advice.
As to the type of reproducer being used, it wasn't shown, but it could be an "L," an "M," or a Diamond "A."
George P.
Indeed excellent advice, but I can assure you the reproducer is fine. This is definitely a feedscrew/half nut issue. Either there is wear (or gunk) on the feedscrew that I can't see, or there is insufficient pressure from the half nut. I am tending to think that it's the feedscrew itself because the half nut makes firm contact.
I will post again when I learn more.
52089, if the half nut pushes down too hard that could also be the problem. Those things are temperamental. They need to be just right.
Ron Sitko has those new half nuts for the Amberola 1. You might try that. I bought a couple spares but have not had to use them yet.
PS: like others, I'd recommend that the original mechanism goes back into the case at some point, certainly before you decide to sell.
Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:11 pm
by NEFaurora
Are'nt the "L" and "M" more stationary than the Diamond "A"....? The L and M just flip over...but are stationary....not like the Diamond "A" which has free movement..
)
Tony K.
Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:22 pm
by Valecnik
NEFaurora wrote:Are'nt the "L" and "M" more stationary than the Diamond "A"....? The L and M just flip over...but are stationary....not like the Diamond "A" which has free movement..
)
Tony K.
The L, M, and A are all "stationary" if you mean mounted in a fixed position while the mandrel traverses beneath them. Only the M flips over.
All three have a some ability for the weight and stylus to move laterally as well as vertically within the limit loop, the L and M a bit more so than the A.
So, strangely a warped Blue Amberol that might not play properly with an A might still be playable with an L or M, even though the A was designed specifically for the Blue Amberol.
Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:37 pm
by NEFaurora
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
It's hard to relate to some of these reproducers especially if you don't own some of them!
)
Tony K.
Edison Collector/Restorer
Re: Amberola 1A question - feedscrew/half nut tension
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:06 pm
by 52089
Problem solved - and it was not caused by the feedscrew or tension!
It was - wait for it - the reproducer lift lever!
When the on/off lever was engaged, the lift lever went down enough for the stylus to contact the record, but not enough to fully disengage from the little "hook" at the rear of the reproducer. This meant that any Blue Amberol that was a few hundredths of an inch smaller than average caused the reproducer hook to drag on the lever, and thus the record would "skip".
For now, I can just manually push the lift lever down a bit and things work just fine. Eventually I'll take the motor out and fix it properly, but now that I know what's causing the problem, I'm in no rush.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
Kevin