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Larger diaphragms, more volume.

The angled-carriage for the C and H reproducers pretty-much goes all the way back to Edison Class-M machines of the 1880's, and while these still perform reasonably well, the design of the small-body reproducer was showing its age by 1910 or so.

The larger reproducers for the horizontal-mount carriages offer broader frequency response, and louder volume.

The cygnet horn rig also takes-up less space, and does present such an obstacle to reach-around when changing cylinders, etc. as with a front=mount crane and larger horn.



( Looks like Zwebie types faster'n I do... )

A Standard D with Cygnet horn is a very nice versatile machine for a starter, as mentioned before. Also a Fireside A is very nice too, as it plays pretty steady, but is very similar in design to the Standard D. Make sure the Standard D you find has a new mandrel bushing, as old ones tend to be pot metal and have frozen mandrels, which are quite hard to get out.

BwanaJoe wrote:

Zwebie wrote: upgrade it with a horizontal carriage, "O" & Diamond "B" reproducers

Nice. So, why is the carriage upgrade and different reproduces better than stock?

They are just additional options that some people prefer. It would require you to manually dismantle your machine to upgrade the carriage and diamond B reproducers aren't cheap.

My personal preference is this: get the Standard with 2/4 minute gearing and buy only Blue Amberols or 2 & 4 minute Indestructible cylinders and use an H reproducer. Skip the black wax 2 minute records, unless you are a person who enjoys that period of Edison recordings (dull IMO). There are more choices on Indestructibles and Amberols, with the upside that they don't break easily. Stay away from 4 minute wax Amberols, unless you like to gamble with there inherent tendency to break for no reason...

Rather than upgrading the machine to the diamond B and a cygnet horn, a beautiful flowered horn and horn crane are impressive and cheaper than a cygnet horn setup. Standards are cheap, but Standards with cygnet horns are around $1,000-1.200 - only because of the horn and a wooden cygnet horn is way more than that. A nice Standard is about $300+- if you get a good deal and a really nice flowered horn is $3-400 and a crane can be had for $100-200 and if you are ok with a reproduction crane, then it would be less. I like the look of a flowered horn and crane setup and after having cygnet horns, I'm just not a big fan... they take a simple machine and add another potential adjustment complication by attaching an upright horn to a slanted carriage, hence the need to upgrade to a horizontal carriage. Besides, cygnet horns are limited in design choices: black (boring), woodgrained (nice, but more expensive) or wood (nice, but hard to find and more expensive). People will argue with my logic, but truthfully, the simplest setup is potentially the easiest and best for a new collector... even a small witches hat horn works just fine.

Anyway, that's for you to decide...

The question was asked why you should not play a BA cylinder with a sapphire reproducer. I don't think it damages the record, but I've been told that is wears out the sapphire rapidly. I have an Amberola 75; plays BA records great with the only downside, the volume is at best only medium. I have both a Standard F with a cygnet horn and a Fireside model A with the small Fireside/Gem horn; nice, but no match for the sound of the Standard with the cygnet horn. I also have a little Gem model A 2 minute machine, cute, but not a serious machine for listening to records. I heard a friend's Standard with a cygnet horn and an O reproducer. That machine blew away any cylinder machine I have.

Zwebie wrote:

Nice. So, why is the carriage upgrade and different reproduces better than stock?

The standard carriage supplied with the Standard Model "D" faces the small "C" or "H" reproducers forward so that you can use a 14" horn or a larger horn with a forward facing crane. The horizontal carriage faces upward for use with a cygnet back mounted crane and horn, ant the "O" or Diamond "B" reproducers are larger, having a diaphragm of more than twice the surface area of the "C" or "H", and thus having much greater volume and clarity.

Bob S.

Thanks. So was the horizontal carriage a period upgrade or is it from a later machine?

In my humble opinion the lower priced machines that are great machines for the newbie would be the Home or Standard capable of playing 2 and 4 minute cylinders.

I actually prefer a Triumph but out of my price range.

Jerry B. wrote:I also vote for an Edison Standard two and four minute player. The B is bullet proof as is the D once that pot metal bushing is replaced. Other good choices are the A Fireside or any 2&4 minute Home. Wether your choice is Fireside, Standard, or Home, make your first machine a 2&4 minute player. Don't make the mistake of buying a two minute Standard with plans to buy the parts to make it a combination player. It will cost more in the long run to buy the parts. The heaviest machine, the Home, gives an owner more horn options because it can take a small morning glory horn or a quite large one. I still like a Standard the best. You can add some nice horn options when funds are available. Jerry

Jerry:

Good advice..... I made that mistake it cost me 215.00 for the conversion kit.

Jerry

Thanks. So was the horizontal carriage a period upgrade or is it from a later machine?

It was a period upgrade.

De Soto Frank wrote:So what damage have I been doing by playing BA's on my Homes with an H four-minute sound-box ?

I think the only damage would be to one 's ears.

marcapra wrote:The question was asked why you should not play a BA cylinder with a sapphire reproducer. I don't think it damages the record, but I've been told that is wears out the sapphire rapidly. I have an Amberola 75; plays BA records great with the only downside, the volume is at best only medium. I have both a Standard F with a cygnet horn and a Fireside model A with the small Fireside/Gem horn; nice, but no match for the sound of the Standard with the cygnet horn. I also have a little Gem model A 2 minute machine, cute, but not a serious machine for listening to records. I heard a friend's Standard with a cygnet horn and an O reproducer. That machine blew away any cylinder machine I have.

I think that when Edison came-up with the larger reproducers / horizontal carriages, these also had larger/heavier floating-weights than the C & H reproducers... I believe this weight is what would have caused a sapphire to wear quickly ?

The Diamond stylii were necessary to withstand the tracking pressure.


While the sapphire in an H reproducer might not last "indefinitely", the tracking weight is probably light enough that it will still last a good, long time ?