The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

mcgravy wrote:I don't know much about berliners but it seems that this one is similar to the ones in discussion so I thought I would share some photo's. This one was bought from the estate of a 91 year old man in Ohio. He still lived in the home that had been in his family for several generations. The berliner had belonged to his grandfather and had a collection of 33 berliner and 8 early zonophone records with it.

Rick

Thanks Rick for sharing the photos of No.13571 with a serial stamped speed control plate, side guard, and single-screw brake. Based upon the 4 Berliners examined in this thread, the side guard and single-screw brake were being supplied over at least a 6000-unit block of production during National Gramophone Company distribution. (The firm was reincorporated into the National Gramophone Corporation in early March 1899.)

gramophone78 wrote:That's interesting. However, you date your Berliner (Compendium blue cover) as 1899. This, along with other observations have lead me to believe the guard was from approximately that year.

We needed a darker-finish Improved Gramophone to show the appearance of the 1899 model. We used mine because it has the features of late 1898-early 1899 models, and we didn't show the N.G.Company decal. It could well be an early 1899 model; I honestly don't know for sure.

gramophone78 wrote:Not sure how reliable serial numbers are in order to establish a solid timeline.

Here is the brake on my escutcheon plate serial model. You will note, there was never any side guard.

At this point, I wouldn't rule out serial numbers as an aid to dating Improved Gramophones. What's yours?

George P.

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I asked this question before but there was no response. Are there reproduction traveling arms available for the trademark model? And what about the brake that has been ripped off this one that was listed on eBay?

Victrolaboy, The last guy to make them that I am aware of was M. Stehlik of Ontario. His inventory was bought out by J&S antiques, as I understand it. The recent thread on Zonophone Concert V reproducers has the contact information for J&S. The way that thread reads - they may be tooling up for another run of product. That is where I would start.

George and Wayne, I have a swing brake TM with two screws holding the brake and there is no guard. The thread is so down in the weeds, I would love for a summary description of what machine you are hoping to find. John

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I know its correct, I don't need any pictures - I have one, you two seem to be on some track regarding serial numbers on speed control plates. But the thread looses me as to what your trying to figure out.JD

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gramophone78 wrote: it was my understanding the guard was introduced in early '99. The single screw "lever" brake also carried onto the next model.

Now, I could be wrong in all this..... .

Based on the Berliners examined in this thread, I think it's a good bet that the guard was introduced in 1898.

George P.

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Being very much a Berliner neophyte, what is the part you are referring to as "the guard" and what is its function?

Clay