The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I do agree that the large horned machines from Europe are capable of some very fine sound. I just don't think that they are common enough to be considered as a main stream acoustic playback that most homes could have used.

Edison records from the period your asking are very common on ebay and due to the often poor surfaces sometimes go for extremely low prices.

Larry

The best sounding pre-1918 phonograph in my collection would have to be my Opera.

Le Concert Automatique Francais or Trombophone maybe? I've got nothing in my collection which sounds better, that is also not quite a bit later ie. 1927-30. Funnily enough they are both coin-operated.

If non-domestic first use disqualifies both then it's definitely got to be an external horn Pathéphone all the way.

FWIW, I've heard a Superphone and I wasn't all that impressed. Admittedly it wasn't in great condition (stored roughly in an unheated outbuilding) but I doubt it bettered the HMV's of the period by much margin.

PinnacleReproducer wrote:Very good info! Some info in replies I had not expected! Where are the Victrola guys? . How hard are the Edison WWI period recordings to find? Thank you again, sirs. Great info to consider

WWI era Diamond Discs are generally pretty common, but also generally pretty noisy. See comments in this thread about identifying the noisiest pressings:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... +date+code

PinnacleReproducer wrote:1918 or earlier - curious what a majority opinion might be?!

IMHO, it may not be about the machine itself, but more out the horn and reproducer. The difference between playing a cylinder through a witch's hat horn and a cygnet horn is frankly staggering.

I'd say the same applies to acoustic Victors as well. A common IX or XI may sell for a lot less than a nice L-door XVI, but the smaller horn in the XVI gives greatly diminished sound.

As far as the "potential" to sound best, it would have to be the Edison Diamond Disc machine in the largest cabinet. Edison had the most "hi-fi" recording process, and the most scientific playback scheme. Only the wartime shortages of materials to make the condensite surface of the discs may hamper the realization of what Edison achieved. Later White Label pressings of WW1 era recordings sound extremely good, as do the earliest etched label discs before war-era shortages compromised the surface quality.

I speak in complete Edison-ignorance... But I enjoy my Credenza and Victor IV (mahogany horn) - and several portables and lesser Victrolas - as a medium for the music. 99% of the Edison discs I see are "pop" music. I know there were some classical recordings as well, but aren't they very high-priced compared to say, Victors? Moreover, Victor and HMV vacuumed up almost all the "name" musicians, at least in classical music.

The discussion above really whets my appetite to hear a 250 and good diamond discs - but what music is available?

Nat wrote:I speak in complete Edison-ignorance... But I enjoy my Credenza and Victor IV (mahogany horn) - and several portables and lesser Victrolas - as a medium for the music. 99% of the Edison discs I see are "pop" music. I know there were some classical recordings as well, but aren't they very high-priced compared to say, Victors? Moreover, Victor and HMV vacuumed up almost all the "name" musicians, at least in classical music.

The discussion above really whets my appetite to hear a 250 and good diamond discs - but what music is available?

You'll find a selection of opera Diamond Disks (and cylinders, among many other things) on my YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/thesegoto8 ... sults_main

I particularly recommend this one to give you an idea of what the system is capable of:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MAT9iqmnWE[/youtube]

The videos on my channel were all recorded on a "small" horn C-150, with the exception of "I'll Never Ask for More", which was recorded on a C-19 that I sold recently.

I collect classical pieces of all major companies, Edison has some very fine ones an also some rather harsh ones. The American Symphony selections conducted by Cesar Sodero who went on to be the conductor for the Metropolitan Opera in the early 40's sort of explains why so many extra detailed versions of operatic selections exist on Edison.

Here is a link to the many classical selections I have up now on You Tube. Not having the finest camera, and a room that is very vibrant creates a bit of sound issues that the actual machine does not. Still when I compare many of the same selections on You Tube I find mine usually hold up well.

https://www.youtube.com/user/acousticedison/videos ( all made with my True Tone Diaphragm)

As to the Credenza comparison that is also interesting. For many years I owned a Credenza in fine shape. In the room it sounded very good on many types of music. Large classical groups however seemed to suffer from very raspy early recording. Individual piano or string selections did better as did the popular selections. When I began to get into Edison phonographs again after a long absence I had the large Edison and Credenza in the same room. One day I happened to play a good popular selection on the Credenza and listen to it from several rooms away. They were connected by large divider type openings except the last to the kitchen. Sort of a shot gun style which my farm house is. When I played the Edison I found that the instruments sounded like they were really in the front room with all the presence that would create. The Credenza on the other hand sounded rather distant and canned in comparison. (In the room the variation was much less). But to me it meant the the play back capabilities of the Edison to recreate as the label says the original sound was quite right.

There are way to many selections that do very well but one of the earlier things I recorded was the first side of the William Tell Overture, in person the Storm of the second part of side one provides sonics unlike anything heard on Victor of the same era. I do agree that Pathé had some fine sound as well. From the little experiences I have had with them is that the classical things are mostly done by a large band type of group which all start to sound exactly a like after a while.

Larry

Here is another Rappold selection with Zenatello.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yxkySMT928

Larry