The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

JohnM wrote:Actually, one can see the grain in an ebonized finish. An ebonized finish is different from a French Polish on an ebony piano, for example.

An ebonized finish is simply a black stain. This was popular particularly on walnut furniture in the last three decades of the 1800's and lingered into the early 20th C. I think this finish may be original on the Victor D. Never say never in this hobby . . . surely you all are familiar with Lynn Bilton's mahogany Monarch?!

John M.

I think looking under the lid eliminates the possibility of it being original, and perhaps has more than one coat of "finish" over the original.



You can see unfinished wood on the inside of the case. You then can see the original finish in the area directly around the motor. Then there is the first non-original finish on the lip of the case, and the outer edge of the motorboard, and then the ebonized finish on the outside. I can't imagine the victor company would have just done the very exterior of the machine in that finish, and then have put that over a coat of shellac, and whatever the second finish actually is. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't look up to the quality I'd expect for a Victor.

I take your point . . . especially where the darker finish does not show along the hinged edge where it would have been difficult to get without the motor board being removed from the bottom of the case. At any rate, I think we can agree the dark finish is quite old!

John M

JohnM wrote: . . . surely you all are familiar with Lynn Bilton's mahogany Monarch?!

John M.

actually, it's the price of that mahogany monarch that makes it pretty hard to forget...

http://www.intertique.com/MahoganyMS.html

... so you think that the one on ebay right now with the ebonized finish is legitimate?

JohnM wrote:Actually, one can see the grain in an ebonized finish. An ebonized finish is different from a French Polish on an ebony piano, for example.

An ebonized finish is simply a black stain. This was popular particularly on walnut furniture in the last three decades of the 1800's and lingered into the early 20th C. I think this finish may be original on the Victor D. Never say never in this hobby . . . surely you all are familiar with Lynn Bilton's mahogany Monarch?!

John M.

I don't know about USA, but what I've seen here (mainly stuff from England) never has such a rough grainy texture to the finish. Being black, I think it would make awefully hard to keep looking clean.
Above the picture of the tag, it also looks like there's balls of fluff or something through the finish.
I'd also expect at least the top edge of the cabinet to be painted to match?

brianu wrote:

JohnM wrote: . . . surely you all are familiar with Lynn Bilton's mahogany Monarch?!

John M.

actually, it's the price of that mahogany monarch that makes it pretty hard to forget...

http://www.intertique.com/MahoganyMS.html

I've always wondered about that machine. And always thought, If you're asking for $15k, shouldn't you at least put in the speed adjustment screw, and perhaps some felt on it? Maybe even spring a little money and put in a clean tone arm support? Maybe even throw on a repro horn, and make it mostly complete? I just figure for $15k, I should get at least a relatively complete machine...just me.

brianu wrote: ... so you think that the one on ebay right now with the ebonized finish is legitimate?

I'll let you know if I win

but I personally doubt it.