Anyone know why my cylinder record broke?

[pughphonos]

George's advice is spot-on. Keep them indoors and at room temps; make sure the cylinder machine is indoors long-term too. Handle gently but transfer them from case to mandrel without handling more than necessary.

I went through a period of purging them from my collection as I too had my heart broken (when they broke) on several occasions. But I'm collecting them again as they have interesting titles on them and a very interesting sonic quality.

When the first one broke on me it sounded like an ice cube cracking in a glass of water; sickening.

But you get over it.

Ralph

[FellowCollector]

Why are these so much more fragile than a Gold Moulded record? Did they just change the wax recipe?

Early Edison 2 minute black wax cylinders had thick solid cores and later Edison 2 minute black wax cylinders had rather thick internal core ridges. Both of these cylinder core designs made for a more durable cylinder (for wax cylinders anyway!) than the thin-wall shallow ridge core of the 4 minute wax Amberols.

The very late Edison 2 minute black wax cylinders possess a very similar brittle composition to that of the 4 minute wax Amberols but, as mentioned above, the thin-walled Amberols were designed with very shallow internal core ridges which yielded a much less durable cylinder relative to that of the heavier ridged 2 minute black wax "cousins".

Doug

[bbphonoguy]

Thanks for all the great input. I'll know to be extremely careful with the remaining ones that I have, and not be surprised if I lose any more.

[Victrolacollector]

I quit buying the wax Amberols for this same reason and I am not too fond of black wax 2 minute cylinders either...

I agree with that statement, again that's why I stick with Indestructible, Blue Amberols and the new resin plastic records by Edisonia, Berlin and Vulcan.

[FloridaClay]

I avoid them now too. I have had them break (sometimes I think out of some kind of spite) even with equal temps and the gentlest of care.

Clay

[EarlH]

I asked one old guy I knew when I was a kid about those things and he said that Edison had a huge rash of complaints about them breaking when they were new. Leo really thought the problems they had with those records is what forced Edison into eventually having to pay whatever it was he had to in order to develop the blue amberol records. And that does make sense. My Sister's first husband had a curved glass china closet full of them in boxes back in the 70's when I was a kid. They had a house fire and the heat from the fire wasn't enough to break the glass on the china closet, but almost every last one of those records cracked. He must have had about 300 of them.

[Lucius1958]

Is this fragility why they are called "Damnberols"? I have one that hasn't broke yet, it is "Teddy After Africa" by the New York Military Band. Is there anything I can do to preserve the cylinder while still being able to enjoy it?

Actually, the "Damnberol" epithet referred to the dubbed Blue Amberols, when the British public first encountered them after WWI.

As for your cylinder, the best you can do is to record it and make a hard copy of the file: that way, you can listen to it without having to endanger the cylinder itself.

Bill

[edisonphonoworks]

Previous to 1908 the moulding process used the patent located below, (developed by Jonas Aylsworth) which uses a piston and tube, with the wax tank below. Sometime in 1908 automatic moulding machines were used, also for this process the compound was changed. Previous to 1908, a compound of carnauba wax, lampblack, zinc, copper and aluminum stearate, and pine tar was used. After 1908 a harder compound was developed, I have read a lead stearate formula, and another using stearic acid and shellac, and lampblack, I have not tried either, so can't confirm exactly what was used in the automatic molding machines, but it resulted in a harder, more brittle compound, that I don't think is worth revisiting. The moulding machines, automatically squirted enough compound to facilitate trimming and finishing the inside. The molds were bell shaped, and sent down a chute, charged with wax. Next they were put on spinning roller, at about 1,300 rpm they spun down to the end of the machine, which was angled downward, when the reached the end, they were put on a lathe with a holder for the mold, a water cooled head had tools for trimming and boring, plus putting the ribs inside the record. Next the records went in a water cooled cage, where the records contracted and came out of the mold. The records were put on warm cores until they were room temperature, and the compound was no longer changing. The cores were lubricated and a hand press, pressed the cores out. The idea of the metal cores is to keep the records from warping during final cooling. If you don't believe me, you can come to my facility and try making a cylinder with or without mandrel cooling, and see for yourself! I have always offered this to the doubting Thomas's of this group, I am always eager to demonstrate to the curious. (From a 1912 American Machinist article) republished by Ronald Dethlefson "In The Groove" article.

[edisonplayer]

I put all my wax Amberols on cassette tape.That way when I want to hear them I don't have to play the actual record.BTW,the man in the YouTube video says a VERY naughty word after he breaks the cylinder,so be forewarned!edisonplayer

[edisonplayer]

My friend Arthur Pare told me that back in the 1970's he didn't have the breakage problems with the wax Amberols that we have now.Time hasn't been kind to the Amberol wax.If only Edison got the rights to the celluloid sooner the problem would've been avoided.But poor Tom couldn't use it due to patent reasons.Sales dropped during the wax Amberol period(1908-12).However,cylinder sales went back up after in introduction of the Blue Amberol.In the end,Edison had to buy the rights to the use of celluloid.edisonplayer