The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have never played one you could understand? Static.

It's hard to enjoy a Berliner.I have a few of them,including a violin solo of "Whistling Rufus".edisonplayer

I looked on the DAHR, and the copy of the Stars and Stripes Forever that I passed on was 61-Y. The recording date of 5/27/97, approximates what I remember, but I erred in that the selection was recorded by the Military Band of Washington, not Sousa's Band. Regardless, I should have purchased it for $50, at the time

I payed $150 for my single Berliner Record in my collection, and I knew that I over payed for it. eBay is just inconsistent with that sort of thing. You can either get great deals or pay too much. In this case the Berliner Record was in excellent condition, and it had very little hiss which is usually to be expected with these Berliners.

-Steve

As to their sound, I too always thought they sounded terrible. I realized however that I'm playing them on machines that would make any record sound terrible. I tried a few on my Orthophonic Credenza. A real improvement! Kind of shocking actually. Still some surface noise but really good bass and brought out instruments that were otherwise "lost".

I agree Berliner records aren't really enjoyable. I have only one Berliner record in my collection by Dan W Quinn from 1899 and I can't understand many words at all it's just so garbled. Going off topic a little Zonophone records of the same era seem to sound a lot better. I have a couple that sound really great for what they are. Anyone know why Zonophones sound so much better than Berliners?

Victrolaboy wrote:I agree Berliner records aren't really enjoyable. I have only one Berliner record in my collection by Dan W Quinn from 1899 and I can't understand many words at all it's just so garbled. Going off topic a little Zonophone records of the same era seem to sound a lot better. I have a couple from 1898 or 1899 that sound really great for what they are. Anyone know why Zonophones sound so much better than Berliners?

This is probably because Berliners used an "acid etch" process to record on to a metal disc, this caused a lot of hiss in the final recording. I believe the Zonophones of the period sounded better because they were recorded on to a wax master instead of a metal one, thus less hiss in the final record.

-Steve

Victrolaboy wrote:I agree Berliner records aren't really enjoyable. I have only one Berliner record in my collection by Dan W Quinn from 1899 and I can't understand many words at all it's just so garbled. Going off topic a little Zonophone records of the same era seem to sound a lot better. I have a couple from 1898 or 1899 that sound really great for what they are. Anyone know why Zonophones sound so much better than Berliners?

Steve's right about Berliner's use of acid etching for recordings, but the material from which the final records were pressed was different too. Berliner's records were pressed by Duranoid, while Zonophones were pressed by the Burt Company. Burt's formula was smoother than Duranoid's and record-for-record, the Zonophones are a superior product to Berliner.

As for Zonophone using wax recording, John C. English was involved in Universal's (Zonophone) early recording technique, and a little later George Cheney took over. In later litigation, it was revealed that Cheney used a heated stylus to record in the wax, thus supposedly circumventing Columbia's patent on engraved recording in wax. (Zonophone recordings were reportedly melted rather than engraved!) Lots of this is explained in The Talking Machine Compendium (Chapter 2) and in Discovering Antique Phonographs.

George P.

Victrolaboy wrote: Going off topic a little Zonophone records of the same era seem to sound a lot better. I have a couple from 1898 or 1899 that sound really great for what they are. Anyone know why Zonophones sound so much better than Berliners?

I don't think Universal's Zon-o-phone records were on the market until the early spring of 1900.

gramophone78 wrote:
I don't think Universal's Zon-o-phone records were on the market until the early spring of 1900.

Perhaps not even until late spring 1900. Zonophone machines seem to have been available before Zonophone records.

George P.