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Marco Gilardetti wrote:

gramophone78 wrote:Marco, there are several threads regarding this matter you may want to search. Here is just one of them.

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 27s+needle

Hope this helps.. .

Thanks for posting, but that is the same thread that I have linked to in the first post of this topic.

Sorry Marco, I don't see a link to the thread, posted in your first post. I do see a "here" link to an Ebay needle tin listing... . Maybe I need new glasses... .

That's really not a big deal, and I thank you for posting nonetheless. Although, before posting anything, I always dig the forum wide and deep (as I reckon that most of the things that cross my mind have been thought and discussed before), at times it's not very easy to find old threads through the search function. So suggesting previous posts is always wise.

The thread you suggested is linked to in the "Soundgen" paragraph, "COMMENTS" section, first sentence.

The best steel needles you can find are made by Laubscher in Switzerland. They were still making them up to recently, don't know if still make them. You can find sealed boxes on sale in ebay. They are gold-plated and very gentle to the records.
http://www.laubscher-praezision.ch/en/t ... innovation

I use more frequently the thorn needles, and reserve the steel for the post 1940 records, or for worn records.

Thank you very much for your note, Carlos, but I'm looking for a steady source of needles for the years to come. Trying to track down Laubscher old stocks is pretty much like trying to track down HMV or Columbia or Marschall old stocks...

I'm not sure if the comments about "pencil shaped" needles are a criticism or an observation. However, in my opinion, the overall shape of the needle has very little to do with the performance. What is important is the design of the portion (the tip) that engages the groove (such things as the angle at which the cone is ground, the radius of the tip and the type of material that the needles are made from). There are other design considerations that alter volume and tone. Fidelity and record longevity are my main interests, and so far the only needles I fear using are very loud tone and chromium alloys (both harder on the records).

I have a supply of both loud and soft tone needles from Mike Child, and am well satisfied with them.

I have also tried the "Siren" spear-point needles, and found them good as well.

Bill

Chamberlain is the brand I use almost exclusively. They are of the cone and cylinder shape but they perform quite well. It is worth noting, and I absolutely cannot give any explanation for this, but I bought 500 Chamberlain loud-tone needles recently and whilst using them I have come across more than a few that are of the tapered shape as you described, being thicker at the base than the rest of the loud-tone needles and gently curving in profile along almost the entire length to get to the point. I have to wonder if perhaps a tin of NOS needles was spilled into a batch of Chamberlain needles by accident. There has to have been at least five or six of them that I have encountered so far.

startgroove wrote:However, in my opinion, the overall shape of the needle has very little to do with the performance.

I'm glad that you - as many others - appreciate the cylinder+cone types of needles. I also like the variety of things that makes the world so amusing.

However, what you write is wrong. The overall compliance of a needle is given by its shape and thinckness at *all* heights. Other factors like harmonics and nodal points are also influenced by shape. If shape was negligible, needles like the previously mentioned Sirena would not work at all. But instead they do, and we're not talking about subtle differences for hi-fi fanatics, but of *huge* differences that even untrained ears can easily detect.

An interesting exchange of views. I'm no expert on anything to do with needles, but as an almost daily user of gramophones, I have found the Mike Child soft tone needles to be the best sounding of any of at least four other modern steel needles that I've tried. Of those four others, two are American.
While the general advice, even by those selling these needles, is that medium tone is the most commonly useful size to buy, I have consistently found that - for the Child needles - soft tone is best in my listening environment. It has to be said that rooms/houses are all different, and with my open horn machines the listening environment makes a huge difference to the overall effect. So what works for one may not work for another. However allowing for that, over a period of around three and a half years or more, the aforementioned soft tone needles have the warmest, most rounded sound I can get from steel. They are the reason I stopped searching for NOS needles. They also are a bit louder than any of the other soft tone needles I've come across.
Two other comments - (1) my needles of preference are thorn/cactus for most records and bamboo for orchestras. This is what I use mostly. Steel are for Victor Orthophonics which I have found thorn can ruin very quickly, and records that are too worn for thorn/bamboo.
(2) I have never met Mike Child nor have any affiliation with him. In fact my experience in the past has been that he's hard to find!

Thanks for your insight, Frankia. As a matter of fact, I've placed an order from Mike Child in the meawhile, as I reckon that there is a general consensus that the needles he sells are excellent, all questions about shape aside.

I second your points about tone types. Many years ago, when I owned only few very cheap portables, I almost ever used full tone needles, except perhaps when occasionally listening to late '50s recordings.

But as my herd of gramophones began to grow up, allowing me to listen to records with orthophonic or viva-tonal gramophones, or with high-quality external "horners", I switched to using soft tone or half tone needles almost exclusively. I very rarely use full tone needles today, and can't really find any practical use for loud tone ones.