What does this mean?

[ambrola]

Okay, I'll say it! This looks like it should be sitting on a piano! Seriously, for a custom finished cabinet (done way back or done recently), I think it looks kinda neat. Of course that is just me, cuz I admire old and original custom touches.

You can not keep it clean. Every piece of dust is visible. I was going to sell it, but could never get any good pictures. Here's the way it sits now.

[52089]

In my teen years, I attempted a "re-aamalgamation" and French Polish on my 1914 VV-IX.

I tried to use the purist technique, rubbing with a pad and linseed oil... it was a LOT of elbow-grease work.

I did not get to a piano-finish, but managed to get the flat center of the top looking respectable (?). The ogee perimeter of the lid and the rest of cabinet were another story.

It will be a LONG time before I attempt to "refinish" another talking machine.

French polish/reamalgamation is definitely a skill that takes a lot of practice.

Some years ago my H-19 Diamond Disc machine wound up being in a room that was flooded with several inches of water for at least 3 days, thus completely stripping all finish and stain from the bottom part of the legs. Insurance covered the professional restoration of those areas, and they did a great job. When the machine was delivered back to the house, the person who brought it in asked if perhaps we had some old cotton socks nearby. He then proceeded to make an "egg" out of a sock, got out a can of denatured alcohol, and gave a selective French polish to the alligatored areas of the case. This was clearly something he had literally done hundreds of times before, so he was both quick and accurate. I wouldn't call it a piano finish, but it's still pretty impressive compared to what it looked like before!

[EarlH]

An actual French polish is really a hard finish to beat. It is somewhat fragile compared to most modern finishes, but if it's taken care of will hold up really well because it's not a very thick finish if it's done right. I did that once with a Rosewood Melodeon and holy cow was that a lot of work. And you are right about it REALLY showing off nicely grained woods.

The filled grain finishes like they did on mahogany and walnut Victrolas really are a piano finish which was meant to imitate a French polish. They don't make rubbing varnishes anymore and I was told by Behlen's it was for some environmental reasons, but it was probably because it just wasn't a very good seller. Piano finishes are a lot of work as well but if you've ever seen a mahogany Victrola finished that way, it's like Clay said, you can understand why they sold in the numbers they did. Oak is pretty forgiving and nearly any finish will turn out look pretty good on it. It takes about 3-4 months to put on a rubbed varnish finish like that. And it's really tough if the cabinet in question has all sorts of dents in it. The picture is from an oak Victrola XVI that had that high gloss early English finish on it and you can see what it faded into. Since they are only worth about $250 no matter what condition they are in anymore, I really didn't want to refinish it. So I just sanded it down with wet & dry sandpaper and mineral spirits and then went over it with a few thin coats of Liberon finishing oil. It really brightened the old girl up and it really matched up what it looks like under the lid, except the outside of the cabinet has faded some. At least now you can stand to look at it and if the guy that has it now takes care of it, the finish should be fine for a long time.

Re-polishing an old finish is ok, but whenever I've done that I've found it makes it very brittle. It looks a lot better usually, but it's really fragile. And that business of reamalgamation usually makes for a really brittle finish in the end as well. I've never had any luck doing that but I have to admit that I'm just a strip and start over kind of guy and will not pay a lot extra for something that has a nice original finish. Unfortunately those finishes are at 100 years old now and they have really oxidized a lot over the years now and the life is gone out of them. I wouldn't refinish something that really does have a nice old finish on it, but they certainly have to be cared for in their old age. Haha. AND DON'T USE PLEDGE. Holy cow is that stuff a problem.

I did read in an old finishing book I found a few months ago that the first spray lacquers in the 1920's used caster oil for the plasticizer and that was why they didn't dry to a high gloss. By the early 30's (when this book was published) they were using synthetic plasticizers that let the finish dry glossy. I would guess that's why the early spray lacquers seem to hold up better than what you see on the early 30's furniture. I've refinished a lot of radio cabinets and once you get into the early 30's the finish on those seems to be especially brittle and flaking off also. Whatever they went to eventually dried out of the finish and didn't allow for the wood to move, that's for sure.

It's too bad about the rubbing varnish not being made anymore. That is hands down my favorite finish on figured wood. It's a lot of work, but I've never had any trouble selling anything I've done that to. Even stuff I wasn't planning on letting go. And if you see a lacquered piece next to a varnished piece and they have both been finished alike, you will want the varnished one every time. Varnish has a clarity that's really hard to describe. But I can totally understand why in 1924, the whole country went to lacquer. And when Victor says they went to spraying on Varnish around 1913 or so, they still had to brush it out. They just used a spray gun to get the finish on the case. It mainly kept dirt from getting into the brush and they could lay the finish on thicker that way speeding things up.

[startgroove]

Clay, Good point, I've noticed that too. Usually people who are not collectors, are mostly attracted to the machines which are properly restored to look like the day they left the factory. I have one Edison Standard that I consider to be over-restored, yet which seems to get more attention than the unrestored Opera. Collectors on the other hand seem to me to be divided strongly. Some prefer machines in restored or nice original condition, others prefer to collect machines that are untouched, or just cleaned up. Russie

[edisonplayer]

I think that if you make a machine look TOO new then it loses its charm.edisonplayer

[Victrolacollector]

When I was a teen I refinished the painted over Mahogany cabinet of my Magnola Talking Machine. I had to restrip and stain and finish it several times. Sometimes I would get clouds on the finish etc. awful....fast forward to last year, with the info from this forum and using stripper, stain and lacquer. I was able to get the machine to a nice even job. This required a lot of buffing and then a thin coat of Johnson's Floor Paste Wax...I rubbed and rubbed it...and oh my did it start to really look great. I did find out one thing it takes "Patience". A cabinet has to be slowly refinished, taking me six months for the stain and the lacquer to cure.

Today, we do not have the same chemicals to work with as when these machines were new. Depending on some machines...A little Howard Products "Restore-A-Finish" will work. Some machines such as the VV-XI that I have looks great, it took stripping, staining (with mixing of pigment) and some very thin coats of spray shellac and brushing.

IMHO, it appears that Oak is less of a problem for refinishing, it seldom needs much attention. Mahogany is the exception, most of it is crazed and dark and needs proper refinish, that some are great at, some are not. Again, it all depends on what the persons taste are. I did see one Victor Victrola back when I was a teen in 1988, it was a beautiful mahogany floor model, it had a piano finish that looked like glass with the grain running through. I have never seen that in person ever again.

I appreciate seeing the photos of refinishing projects by our members, it is the other aspect of collecting and restoring aside from the mechanical and acoustics.

[Hailey]

"French polished to a warm lustre" - means it's been ruined.

Finally...someone who is willing to say it like it is!!

[FloridaClay]

"French polished to a warm lustre" - means it's been ruined.

Finally...someone who is willing to say it like it is!!

Well, some would concur. Others would not. Whatever floats your boat.

Clay