The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I don't think these are worth much, but it is an interesting model with both a sound box and a pickup. The 1927 radio is not the plug in type, but works with batteries or a battery eliminator I think. I believe the 10-50 and 10-51 with the first Victor changers are worth more if in restored condition, but even those have been dropping in price lately. They are definitely big and heavy. I once owned a 9-54 which is bigger than a 9-40 and it weighed 339 lbs.!!!

Marc,

Too bad the elbow for the electric pick-up is pot metal and almost always snapped off, as is the case with the machine pictured.

Gene

These transitional models, especially those with the tubes sticking out in the top fascinate me but they are absolute beasts to move, expensive to restore and not worth that much once you are done. Even if you got it for $250, the electrical restoration alone would run at least another $200, possibly much more. You'd never get your money out after restoration but then again, getting money out, breaking even at some futures point has not often been my top priority.

I'd say I am more gun-ho on early big Victor radio/phonos than most but here's my two cents.

Both the Borgia Two and the VE 9-40 use the AP-947 amp. The Borgia One has no amp. The VE 9-40 has a power-on light on the bottom of the front of the cabinet. It also has the phono lamp in a different spot.

Hi Gene,

In recent rears I have paid:

For Borgia Twos: $950, $461, and $2400 total when I bought every part separately minus amp on ebay in Clarksville OH (when I was young and stupid 3 years ago).

For VE 9-40s: $1000 and $2000 when I bought every part separately minus the amp from the same guy above.

Most all have pot metal issues with the gears and valve I hope to remedy by casting parts to repair in the future. Only one has the big driver.

Additionally I have purchased a few beautiful empty cabinets in the range of $90 - $200.

Is this one still available? Curious to know if the valve works and if the driver and amp are still in place.

-Wayne

There was one up in Minneapolis a guy tried to talk me into buying for $175 a year or so ago, but I just didn't want that huge thing. This must be a later one too as it has four doors instead of two like the one I looked it had. That one had pot metal issues as well.

I also don't understand quite why Victor didn't cover the tubes on those. I have two Panatropes with Radiola 28's in them and they are pretty good radios, but very sensitive to your hands being near the tubes. The tuning and volume will change some when you are near the tubes on that Panatrope if the cover isn't in place and Victor used the same components so maybe I'm missing something on that one. I got a San Diego station on this Panatrope awhile back and I'm in north central Iowa, so I think that's pretty good! It has a loop aerial in it and I don't have a long wire connected to it nor do I have it grounded. This set is all electric, but the Radiola 28 part is the same. Value is kind of a hard thing to put on something like that, especially with the pot metal issues that you get into with some of this stuff.

Does this one allow for "electric" reproduction, or is the switch just to have the radio amplify through the horn? If it's the one with the all electric chassis, than the amplifier with the tubes in it is worth a fair amount depending on which one is actually in there. Then it would be a really good sounding set for sure. The later amplifier had a hum control on it and probably the later horn driver in it as well. The later horn driver used the same diaphragm as the orthophonic reproducer and has a magnetic driver to run it.

Victrola-Monkey wrote:
Most all have pot metal issues with the gears and valve I hope to remedy by casting parts to repair in the future. Only one has the big driver.

-Wayne

I have only seen one 8-60 with the dynamic driver conversion. The conversion kit was made by the Victor company and has all the right pieces to plumb and support the large driver. But it also looks like the changes made to the amplifier were done in the field as they appear to be too sloppy to have come from the factory. And no updates or markings were made to the diagrams inside the cabinet. I wonder if any 8-60's or 9-40's left the factory with the large driver? Do you have a 9-40 with the dynamic driver? Were any of the diagrams that are normally attached inside the cabinet updated? And do you think the amplifier was factory modified?? The 9-40 in the picture has the PM driver, no backs and no cover on the ballast. If it had the dynamic driver I would have definitely hauled it home.

A Ford 1 wrote:Hi again,
I only had to replace the rubber spacers between either side of the armature and the ends of the horse shoe magnet to get my Borgia II playing as the radio worked when I received it. The radio sounded great as did the Borgia II. The only names on this machine are Radiola 28, Radio Corp. of America, Victrola, and Borgia II 735. I assume it is serial number 735 but am not sure. No where is there 9-40 as far as I can see and I just looked to be sure. I also had heard from one collector in Baltimore that it might be valuable. I believe I also may have a spare old original equipment ballast tube that drops the line voltage down to battery level to supply the diodes.
Thank you all kindly for this thread and the information as I also wondered what my machine might be worth,
Allen

The 9-40 is just the later version of the Borgia II. The internal numerical designation for the first (two-door) version of the Borgia II was, as I recall, 9-2, with the four-door version designated the 9-3, though I do not have my notes at hand and memory is a trifle hazy on the matter.

These machines used to fetch a pretty fair price, but nowadays they are relatively difficult to sell.

It's interesting when I read threads like this. This was my year to buy 2 machines that I had been thinking about for a long period of time. One was an Edison C-2. The other was a Victor VE 9-25. Both machines were in exceptional condition and were restored electronically. The Edison C-2 sounds wonderful and was easier to judge cost wise. While these machines vary in cost there are some consistencies. Machines that are complete and work seem to run from $2400-$4000 the difference in cost depends on if they are restored electronically or not and what their overall cosmetic condition is. In my case I almost always had to factor in $450-500 to get a machine to me on the West coast. The one I did get was here on the West coast and I picked it up. Maybe its because of what I do for a living but I am always ready to pay more for a machine that is in very good condition than for one that is in good condition. I know that for many collectors buying a machine that is complete that works in fair to good condition at a bargain price is what they are after-and that's OK I am just drawn to those really good condition machines and will pay what I feel is a fair price based on the fact that for every really good condition to exceptional condition there might be hundred of machines in lesser condition.

In the case of the VE 9-25-this was something that took place and I was not really thinking about adding that machine to my collection. I saw the machine and was instantly drawn to it. The cabinet was in exceptional condition, it was restored electronically and the plating was nearly mint-and it sounded wonderful. It was not for sale and the time that was OK and I did not think much about it. But I did not forget the machine and then it became available so I bought it. It was not inexpensive and thought about it for a while-what I found is there is not much of a market for these machines these days, but not many were made and based on its condition I bought it.

I also just bought a Victor 10-50-it was on the forum and I will need to get it to AZ and then it needs some work. At this point I have $795 in it including the shipping to AZ. I know what 10-50's have sold for as I have tracked a number of them for the past 5 years. We will see where I end up cost wise when I am done.

Bottom line is I love the look of these big machines and this is a hobby. I started out collecting common machines bought where the fair market price was at the time and in many cases the value on them has gone down-but its not how I make my living and if I have fun its worth it to me. But machines of very good to exceptional condition seem to still sell well. And so do those machines that are rare. Right now I may have overpaid for the VE 9-25 but everytime I look at it I don't regret it. So if you want the 9-40 buy it!

Abe

I'm sorry but I gotta keep things straight here with the Borgia One, Borgia Two, and VE 9-40 compaisons.

I have both 2-door and 4-door Borgia Twos and VE 9-40s. Model and door number do not correlate.

The "Borgia II" is on the ID tag but it is a VE 9-2, aka Borgia Two..

As "Borgia" is on the ID tag but it is a VE 9-3, aka Borgia One.

Borgia One is the only one that is a windup and has no amplifier for the Radiola 28.

The difference in the cabinets of the Borgia Two and the VE 9-40 was made because of the same reason found with the Credenza and the VV 8-30 (VE 8-60).. And that was to a accommodate a power-on light, or just a place holder location as in the case with the VV 8-30. Additionally, the newer style cabinets (VE 9-40, VV 8-30, and VE 8-60) are about an inch or more taller with a bigger base but shorter bun feet.. As does the actual horn height follow suit for the newer cabinets.

Oh, I should add that the same change was made to the latter VE 10-50 cabinets to accommodate the power-on light on the VE 10-51.