The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

[u]"Figure 29 shows the tinfoil phonograph of December 1877[/u], see below. This alone proofs [proves] that, although the document header on Sheet One says "July 30, 1877", all of these drawings for the British patent were prepared not earlier than December 1877."/quote]

Hi Stephan,

There may be some misunderstanding here. The drawing (Fig 29) of the Edison tinfoil phonograph in Brit. 2909 was N-O-T a part of the first Provisional Application of July 30, 1877. Edison ADDED this tinfoil illustration (only) to his application on Dec 24, 1877 and FILED/ADDED it anew in England on Jan 30, 1878. His enthusiasm for the new format (in this telephonic patent 2909) would prove to be a mistake and he had his attorneys withdraw it on Aug 17, 1882 (to protect the telephonic portion). You didn't mention if you had seen Ray Wile's 1977 article in the Royal Scottish Symposium (p. 17).

I admire your desire to make the Canadian Patent 8026 (not 8056 as you have it twice) the first to use/show the strip phonograph of July 1877 ("Halloo"). But surely you must know of Edison's three US Patents ('Speaking Telegraph') filed by TAE in 1877 covering much the same subject as the orig Brit 2909. In each case, the official sequence of prior cited patents in his own heading places the Brit patent 2909 (July) BEFORE the Canadian Patent 8026 (Oct). There is an additional list there as well, including France, Belgium, and Russia (which came after Canada).

Thank you helping to sort this out.

Best
Allen

AllenKoe wrote: There may be some misunderstanding here.

Please excuse me, but the misunderstanding is on your side. The three phonograph models from Canadian patent 8026 were N-O-T included in the provisional specification of July 30, 1877, simply because they did not exist at that time. This is why Canadian patent 8026 takes an exceptional position as the first patent which includes the phonograph.

It would facilitate the discussion very much if you show me original sources which support your position.

Thank you, George, for your well-chosen words which warmed my heart.

Kind regards
Stephan

George raised a valid point. I cite from his post: "Without the provisional applications and published patents spread out before us, we readers lack the perspective that serious researchers such as yourself have gained. We are at your mercy when told that a certain illustration appears "here" but not "there." ..."

I therefore scanned (please excuse the quality, as I only have photostats of the original patent):

• The envelope of Canadian patent 8026
  Claim twenty, referring to the recording and reproduction of sound (2 pages)
  Description of figure 4 and 5. (2 pages) (The underlying principle of this phonograph model closest resembles that one of the tinfoil model.)
  The drawings (3 pages)