Rare Berliner Lever Wound Tin Can Gramophone

[gramophone78]

I think it's premature to even consider the "P-word" until the serial number is known. I do expect this machine is early production since the only other metal-cased lever-wind Berliner with a brake is numbered in the 80s (eighties). If so, it begs the question of why the brake on this model was discontinued during its production.

George P.

I agree George. Hence why I wrote "possibly"... . I was also unaware of another with this braking system.
I too find it strange the lever brake appears to have been eliminated during this models short run; even though the run was very small in numbers.

However, we also find the later wood case version ratchet winds with both brake and sans brake and arm rest. Although, a completely different brake design. I wonder why..??. Another great Berliner mystery.

In the case of the metal cased model, it's far more complicated then not screwing parts onto the wood case. They had to retool for a new case without the raised/contoured area for the brake. Seems like additional cost in order to eliminate the brake... .

Then, we find a lever brake design used slightly later again.

[phonogfp]

I think it's premature to even consider the "P-word" until the serial number is known. I do expect this machine is early production since the only other metal-cased lever-wind Berliner with a brake is numbered in the 80s (eighties). If so, it begs the question of why the brake on this model was discontinued during its production.

George P.

I agree George. Hence why I wrote "possibly"... .

Hmmm...

In light of all the above.....I wonder if this is a prototype..??.

Let's not make a thing out of this, or even a "possible" thing out of this. The "P-word" is often drawn like a gun in discussions of unusual machines. I think we old guys should be setting a good example to the young Turks on this forum.

As for the brake, Eldridge Johnson included a similar design in his U.S. patent No.601,198, although this wasn't filed until Aug. 19, 1897 (granted March 22, 1898). If Johnson had objected to the use of this design as being his, it seems as though he would have taken action sooner.

Mysterious indeed!

George P.

[JohnM]

Dumb Question #8497: Is the turntable spindle longer than normal to allow for the glass plate?

[gramophone78]

Dumb Question #8497: Is the turntable spindle longer than normal to allow for the glass plate?

There are no dumb questions on here John... .
I can share that the spindle on my early hand wind protrudes out of the record nut when fully screwed down. So, some spindles might be a bit longer.

That said, you can see the wider spindle area at the base. This is to allow the record fit nicely on the spindle and eliminate any lateral movement of the record.

Spindle.jpg (71.59 KiB) Viewed 1334 times

[JohnM]

Dumb Question #8497: Is the turntable spindle longer than normal to allow for the glass plate?

There are no dumb questions on here John... .
I can share that the spindle on my early hand wind protrudes out of the record nut when fully screwed down. So, some spindles might be a bit longer.

That said, you can see the wider spindle area at the base. This is to allow the record fit nicely on the spindle and eliminate any lateral movement of the record.

Spindle.jpg

1895 Berliner Hand-Wind.JPG

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[Shawn]

Here are a couple pictures of this model of Berliner featured in last September's issue of the Antique Phonograph. This one is serial number 355.

If you are not a member of the Antique Phonograph Society, this is the cool stuff you are missing!

Here's the link to join.

http://www.antiquephono.org/join-us-home/

Shawn

[fmblizz]

I bet the seller is very surprised that the bidding is over 19K.. with 7 days left..

Blizz

[fmblizz]

31,000 anyone want in???

blizz

[Panatropia]

Nope. That price would buy me a decent '27 Buick Open Tourer.

[JohnM]

$60,200.00