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I've seen the BGT and BFT with both types of connector. I thought either could be correct, depending on date of manufacture and available parts but could be wrong.

If it weren't for the two holes drilled into the cabinet, it wouldn't bother me a bit. However, those holes are a non-reversible modification. Otherwise, I would just remove all the extra reproduction stuff and call it a BG. In fact, I'd still call it a BG.... with two extra holes in the cabinet. If it really was a BGT to begin with, and making reproduction parts was the only way to make it complete, that would be a different story. Sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do in order to make a functioning machine. This however is a fantasy piece.

I'll add kudos to the owner however for at least being honest about its lineage.

JerryVan wrote:If it weren't for the two holes drilled into the cabinet, it wouldn't bother me a bit. However, those holes are a non-reversible modification. Otherwise, I would just remove all the extra reproduction stuff and call it a BG. In fact, I'd still call it a BG.... with two extra holes in the cabinet. If it really was a BGT to begin with, and making reproduction parts was the only way to make it complete, that would be a different story. Sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do in order to make a functioning machine. This however is a fantasy piece.

I'll add kudos to the owner however for at least being honest about its lineage.

This is also the same thing that bothers me. It's the same with Edison and Cygnets. Especially after the good quality repro cygnets became available everyone wanted to have a machine with a cygnet, even if it meant drilling a perfectly original Triumph, Fireside, Home, Standard. Unless properly chronicled, and it almost never is, it causes problems for later collectors and historians.

From my research in helping a local friend complete a 2/4 minute BGT that is missing the back bracket and tone arm but still has it's two original connector pieces, just like ChuckA's, I think I may be able to shed light on the connector tube question.

The BGT catalog engraving that Phonohound provided shows an early BGT, with cast crank and "The Graphophone" decal. It also shows the single L-shaped connector tube that bridges the throat of the reproducer and the tonearm.

The BGT that my friend owns, thanks to a bit of horse trading with me, came with a two part connection including the U-tube piece. It is also a late BGT, with a two part steel crank and a "The Columbia Graphophone" decal, never mind the 2/4 minute gearing which could've been added to an earlier machine. ChuckA's BGT is an earlier machine with the early decal and cast crank, but I'll cover that in a minute.

I have a suspicion that the two part connection might be the standard equipment on later "T-type" Graphophones because of the models that were introduced in 1908 with the horizontal carriage that required a U-tube connection in combination with the previously designed back bracket and tone arm assemblies. It appears that from a production standpoint Columbia opted to keep using the old back brackets in conjunction with the new horizontal carriage machines but also adopted their U-tube pieces for use with the slanted carriage models, so they didn't have to produce three types of connections (U-tube, the cast lower tube for the U-tube, and the early single L-tube). Where the decal/ crank transition is is obviously not clear (1908 for the decal?) so it might be that examples like ChuckA's BGT are somewhere "mid-production."

-Jake


EDIT:

I just saw that the drawing of the BKT Phonohound provided shows a later decal with a later two part steel crank and also an L-tube connection...

Hi

This is a copy of my conversation with the seller.

Cheers Marcel

saxymojo wrote:Hi

This is a copy of my conversation with the seller.

Cheers Marcel

I cannot open them for some reason Marcel.

ChuckA wrote:

saxymojo wrote:Hi

I was just wondering what the thoughts are on this machine. It started life as a BG, the seller has now converted it to a BGT by making the parts required, he seems to think, this now makes it a BGT. I would have preferred it to remain a BG.

What do you think? would you want to own it?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Columbia-BGT ... Sw5dNWobZw

Cheers Marcel

If you don't mind having the wrong back bracket & tonearm assembly, a bad refinishing job, wrong crank and don't mind looking at it from a distance - it's OK (NOT)


NO!


Chuck

To paraphrase Gilbert & Sullivan:

"She may very well pass for a BGT,
In the dusk, with the light behind her."

Bill

Valecnik wrote:

saxymojo wrote:Hi

This is a copy of my conversation with the seller.

Cheers Marcel

I cannot open them for some reason Marcel.

Hi

You won't be able to open them, I just grabbed a copy of the pages, I had a feeling that the seller would have the posts removed, I was correct he did. I figured if lies were spread around in the future, I would be good to have proof.

Cheers Marcel

"Just like Columbia would have made it." Either the ultimate in hubristic self-delusion or crass ignorance. There are folks like that in every hobby. In my world, antique autos; we had a fellow who took the remains of a 1913 Mercer touring car and fabricated a type 35 J Raceabout. This involved major alterations to the frame, different engine, newly fabricated body parts.....granted, if you have the money and skill and want one well, God bless your endeavors. But don't pass it off as "original". Needless to say, he put it up for auction and despite the easily verified rumors floating about, it went for crazy money to an enthusiastic neophyte with more money than knowledge.
Oh, I neglected to add. He did have an "expert." Cobble up some appraisal declaring it to be original.

I also note that his placement of the rear decal is wrong. All legitimate tonearm Columbia cylinder machines Im aware of had the back bracket mounted right over the decal. I suppose they had a bunch of cases made and ready to go and just started mounting tonearms. The paper label under the lid of mine says BGT but still has the bracket mounted over the decal.