The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

These early Edison grille cloths are a puzzle, no doubt. I think the best way of determining the true story is by 1) examining surviving machines; 2) examining period documentation; and 3) applying historical context.

Examining surviving machines will often show traces of original grille cloth on early Amberolas and A-series DD machines. In my experience, this has been seen more often on the wooden grilles than the metal variety. Rather than deduce that machines with wooden grilles came with cloth, but those with metal grilles did not, it makes more sense to deduce problems with adhesion on the metal grilles. Whatever the substance used (shellac?), it seems to have worked better on wood than metal.

Examining period documentation bears out what we see on surviving machines. In Edison's 1914 catalog of "Diamond Amberolas," the images are so uniformly dark that the areas behind the grilles almost always appear black. Except the Amberola IV. Take a look:
Although the space behind the grille shows no horn detail, it's not black (as seen in the Amberola III illustration to the left). There appears to be a grille cloth on that Amberola IV. Surviving evidence shows that at least one Amberola III was provided with a grille cloth (shown in an earlier post). The consistently dark areas behind the grilles in these illustrations NEVER show any horn detail. This suggests consistent application of a grille cloth.

The same can be seen in the 1913-1914 catalog of Edison Diamond Disc Phonographs. Look at this page spread showing the A 290 and A 275:
Despite these large images and the relatively open design of the grilles, there's no horn detail shown. Now take a look at the A 80:
The A 150 to the left has the typical black void (with no horn detail), but the A 80 shows a grille cloth. Examination of surviving A 150s and A 80s will often show cloth remnants inside the grilles.

After mulling over what we can see in surviving machines and period documentation, sometimes it's good to apply historical context. We're all products of our time to a greater or lesser degree. In the 21st century, those beautifully grain-painted horns are something to be admired. It seems ridiculous to decorate them like that, then hide them behind a grille cloth. But in 1913, talking machine manufacturers were leaving the horns behind; hiding them. Buyers wanted pretty cabinets, not decorated horns. Besides, wasn't grain-painting a way to dress up less-expensive woods and make plain metal less utilitarian? It may be almost a lost art now, but at that time itinerant painters traveled village to village grain painting doors and interior woodwork for those who lacked the means to buy something nicer. The aura of grain painting at the time was not "quality" but rather "doll up." As much as they appeal to us now, those grain painted horns were not looked upon as particularly attractive by most at the time. You will look in vain for any mention in the Edison catalogs of the grain painted horns. It wasn't a selling point. It seems crazy to me too...but in 1915 all Edison horns began to be painted black. I've read no complaints about this in the period literature.

The logical conclusion, which is supported by our research of surviving machines and period literature, is that Edison supplied all its cabinets - Amberola and Disc Phonograph - with grille cloths.

...But as much as I strive for historical accuracy in my machines, I don't cover up a nice grain painted horn!

George P.

Fabulous perspective, George! The grille cloth colors seem to remain quite a mystery at this point, too. I like your analytical and thoughtful approach to the topic! I hope we can definitively unlock the secrets to at least a few models eventually. Time for yet another database?

Fran

George,,, I have examined my Amberola DX model and it has remnants of a shiny "orange" silk grille material - I will try to capture a photo if I can as there is very little left but it sure looks orange,,, not tan or gold.

Brian Keith

Brian,

I have seen a good bit of that orange ("pumpkin") grille cloth in these machines from the 1912-1915 era.

George P.

Even though I've seen many early DD and Amberolas that have no indication of ever having had a grill cloth, I have to believe they all came with one.

Still, I've not replaced the cloth in any of mine. I prefer to be able to see those nice wood grained horns and don't like the slight muffling effect of even the sheerest cloth.

Valecnik wrote:Still, I've not replaced the cloth in any of mine. I prefer to be able to see those nice wood grained horns and don't like the slight muffling effect of even the sheerest cloth.

I wonder if the same sensibilities weren't practiced by original owners. It seems almost a sure thing that folks would have noticed the better sound achieved by removing the grilles. I would bet that once they did that a few times for "critical listening" the grille cloths became damaged and were eventually in tatters; compelling the removal or replacement of the cloth. Even with the "ugly" black horns.

And as George points out, adhesion was likely an issue with metal.

It's funny that we see the Disc phonographs with obviously replaced cloths much more frequently than on the Amberola models. Does this indicate a paradigm shift in the way people listened to music with Disc Phonographs?

How long did a family "record player" stay "new"? 2, 5, or 10 years? I'm inclined to believe that with "enthusiasts" it was no longer than we find with the relevance of similar appliances today.

I'm sure "audiophiles" are no modern phenomenon. If the overwhelming number of them here are any indication of an earlier trend, then there must have been many 100+ years ago, too.

I refuse to believe that basic human tendencies were that much different a couple of generations ago.

People have always tried to improve their possessions; just think about the enormous supply of accessories that were produced from nearly the very beginning.

Automobiles and radios were a hobbyists dream, so why not phonographs?

Something to ponder...

Fran

The orange-ish silk found on some Amberolas ....

Hi,
This is my two cents worth. About 1947 my grand father George Oetken died and my family inherited his, to me at the time big, Victor talking machine. It was a floor model but at 8 or 9 years old I did not note the model number. It was placed in the basement and my sister, 10 years my senior, and her friends played and danced to it and I think I was assigned to wind it as a guard by my mother so no funny business took place.
It eventually was discarded. A few years later the one legged WW-1 vet, that had been my grand fathers new paper man died, he lived with his widowed sister. My mother on hearing the sister was going to sell her house and move to live with her daughter asked about the victor floor model in the living room. I bought it full of records for $7.50. I still have the Victor and she and her brother were still using it up until I bought it. That Victor was in our living room until an electric Airline radio-phonograph was purchased in the late 40ies or early 50ies when the Victor was relegated to the basement. When the pot metal turn table of the electric phonograph broke from it's hub I glued it back on.
People, poor to lower middle class, that lived through the hardship of WW-1, depression, and WW-2 with shortages of money and rationing did not easily discard anything and I am still that way today.
Allen

briankeith wrote:The orange-ish silk found on some Amberolas ....

Your machine appears darker than the two Amberola 30's that I own. Edison must have had different finishes.

Victrolacollector wrote:
Your machine appears darker than the two Amberola 30's that I own. Edison must have had different finishes.

I've seen nothing in period Edison literature to suggest any choice of finishes for the Amberola 30. Far more likely is that the different colors we encounter are due to differences in storage, care, cleaning agents used, and possibly later staining by an owner wishing a darker cabinet. The finish itself may have been cheapened over the production run as well (as the cabinets were), but I have no documentation for that.

George P.