Playing “racially insensitive” songs for young children

[Chuck]

The humor in those old Coon songs is corrupting?
Really? So we are supposed to ignore them and pretend
as if they do not exist?

My opinion of this all is that those who might get a bit
bent out of shape by those stories and their associated
words should get a sense of humor.

Those who would be offended should simply get over it!

I personally have had quite enough of the double standard
which now exists in this regard. Equal means equal,
not "more equal".

Suggested reading: Mark Twain's "Tom Sawyer" and
"Huckleberry Finn".

But I digress to the topic at hand:

Some of the first cylinders I ever heard at the ripe
old age of ten years were some Coon Songs.

My dad advised me to keep those words to myself and
not to be saying them in public. He made sure that
I understood the context. That all happened, (by the way), right around 1967. That summer was the time when
Milwaukee, Wisconsin was locked down with a curfew
because of rioting, looting, burning, and general
destruction of a large portion of the downtown section
of our city.

So, while that was all going on, I could sit at
home and listen to: "Honey Da' Moon am a-shinin'".

Context, Indeed! (i.e: some things never change)

Chuck

[edisonphonoworks]

I have no reservation playing any cylinder record (or 78 acoustic) for anyone. I play my phonographs at fairs and museums, at antique farm gatherings, and I let the machines speak in an un-edited way, I play patriotic songs, marches, coon songs, and Golden&Marllow and other such skits to anyone. I usually present the time period to folks, as a time when Americans enjoyed freedom of speech and did not worry about government intrusion into ones personal life. Political correctness has ruined this nation!

[Lucius1958]

In my humble opinion:

While we should not try to erase our history, as portrayed within these recordings, we must realize that the stereotypes they contained, while entertaining to the general public, were not necessarily condoned, or whole heartedly approved of, by the minorities thus portrayed.

It is one thing to enjoy a bit of vaudeville or ragtime: but if a member of your family was, as Chris Rock says, "swinging from a tree" during those days, perhaps one should not automatically belittle any negative reaction to these documents.

Bill

[Wolfe]

Right. The question here is what's responsible for children. Not the felicities of a few goofball phonograph collectors.

Or Chris Rock.

[epigramophone]

My grandchildren are still too young to understand these things, so there is always the danger that they might inadvertently blurt out something which might attract the unwelcome attention of the politically correct thought police. Here is one nursery rhyme they won't be listening to any time soon :

[welshfield]

Thank you all for your comments and input to my question. It seems as if this discussion tends to veer off into current race relations, which was not the basis of my question, really.

I have three points to clear up before I reach my conclusion:

First of all, I did not, do not, and never will “condemn” these recordings, as was inferred in an early post. They represent a place and time in history that can not and should not be blotted out for any reason. I own my share of such recordings and play them probably as frequently as I play anything else.

Second of all, although I appreciate the suggestion to make the playing of these a “teaching moment,” I really can’t see a mother, father, and children sitting before a glowing fireplace and gathered around the phonograph on a cold, Ohio winter night, enjoying cylinders (or discs) when suddenly the father stands up and offers a “teaching moment.” I don’t feel this is the time and place.

Third, all you “anti-political-correctness” people, please understand that this works two ways. I do not expect anyone to interfere with how I choose to educate my children, either with “political correctness” or not.

Having said that, I now agree with those who suggest that playing skits or monologues that insult or demean a particular group of human beings for the sake of humor is not appropriate for young ears. As young children grow older, wiser, and have been grounded in civility and decency, they then can listen to these recordings (with, if necessary, the “teaching moment”) with a full understanding of their historical place, having been recorded within 50 years after this country finally stopped condoning slavery.

Obviously, not all such recordings are demeaning. Those of Burt Williams, himself being black, for example, are hilarious, even in today’s so-called sophisticated world. I have a huge collection of these and play them frequently. Neither are Stephen Foster and similar ballads and ragtime tunes with their original lyrics and accents. Most of the minstrel records are interesting although corny and barely funny by today’s standards. These are all, in my opinion, playable for young children.

I am particularly talking about recordings including the blatant use of the “N” word and those that horrendously and shamelessly demean for the sake of humor. They aren’t really funny anymore; they are historical artifacts. I now agree that young children can wait until later for exposure to these.

Those of you who play these most-insensitive recordings for a large group of people need to understand the difference between that and playing them in a close, intimate, family setting at which it may be inferred by the children that the parents approve of the demeaning content of the skit. Children hear all sorts of things in public, good and bad, and are unlikely take much stock in the content of the music played by a stranger for a large group of people. Go ahead and play these recordings with my blessing and approval (for what this is worth). However, as for me and my sons, we will hold off on deliberately playing them until the children are a bit older. We will not hide them or shield them, we will merely avoid them.

I feel that this is not “political correctness” or “reverse discrimination,” it is a mere application of common sense and decency. And also, a matter of avoiding problems. Like it or not, we now live in a society dominated by political correctness; and it is better to prepare young children for this reality rather than join a (most likely) futile –and in my mind, even as a conservative— senseless crusade to continue to use racial slurs and phrases. The fact that, within certain racial communities, words are used, which they resent being used by those outside the community, is irrelevant. I may refer to myself as skinny or ugly, but if you do so, be prepared to find yourself missing a few teeth. Is this “reverse discrimination”? I don’t think so, and I believe this applies to epithets used against certain racial and ethnic communities as well.

Thank you again. This has been very interesting.

[orpington]

I am late to this thread...but a GREAT THREAD!!!

I do not much care for the way 'political correctness' has been thrown in my face ever since, at the very least my college days, if not before...

YES, do play those cylinders for your children. Why hide or erase our past, our heritage?

It is an excellent history lesson. Not playing these is right up there with the 'censorship' some libraries seem to feel the need to enforce by banning books such as "Huckleberry Finn", because it uses the n word...

I think folks today need to be exposed to this sort of stuff at an early age...the world is quite an unforgiving place in the 'real world', once one is an adult, and it creates a backbone, a spine, and decreases the chances of going through life naïve, etc.

Do you think my grandfather, who grew up in a northeastern city, a son of immigrants, never had an epithet tossed his way? Same of my wife's grandfather, who is still alive, and a great fan of humour related to the Irishman, and has no problem with a term beginning with the letter M and ends in ick.

Political correctness has gone way too far...everyone is afraid of offending someone somewhere...

[edisonplayer]

I wonder if it's permissible to allow young children to watch reruns of "All In The Family" on TV? They wouldn't understand it anyway.Same goes for "racially insensitive"songs.edisonplayer

[Wolfe]

I think folks today need to be exposed to this sort of stuff at an early age...the world is quite an unforgiving place in the 'real world', once one is an adult, and it creates a backbone, a spine, and decreases the chances of going through life naïve, etc.

Playing coon cylinders for young children will do nothing of the sort. Talk about naive.

[Edisone]

Changed my mind - this is a losing proposition