Mainspring removal problem.

[Lucius1958]

Here's a pic of the ratchet wheel.

ratchet.JPG

You can see that it's staked in two places. I don 't think it's meant to come off the shaft.

That is the same arrangement as on my model A.

Bill

[bangster]

Excellent idea, Larry! If I were smarter, I might have thought of it myself, which I didn't. Removing the spring from the barrel, just as I intended all along, but with the awkwardness of the gear and shaft still being attached. I'll betcha I can pull it off.

Thanks, Larry

[bangster]

And it Worked!

But not exactly "controlled." Once one coil was free, the whole shebang jumped out of the barrel all at once. But no harm done.
Getting the arbor out of the spring was something of a bear; but with the help of two small screwdrivers, I managed to enlarge the inner coil enough to release its grip on the arbor hook.

Now, down to business.

bangster

[edisonphonoworks]

I am glad you got the spring out. I started working on machines at 11 ½ and when I have done spring replacement, I always used a burlap sack,(laundered first), I put the spring barrel in it, and take a pair of needle nose pliers, and give the spring a yank through the bag and it safely comes out. Be sure to be well rested when putting spring back in, have no clutter around the area, where it can hook on anything, You should also have eaten your Wheaties before installing the spring.

[bangster]

Yep. I know that well. Compared to clock springs, these can be King Kong.

[bangster]

Gonna take more than Wheaties.

I know the routine for hand-loading a mainspring into a barrel, but I can't even get started with this one. Its outer end is might' nigh as stiff as a board. Can't even get enough in the barrel to grab the barrel hook. It's like trying to install a yardstick.

Would it be permissible for me to anneal the outer few inches of the spring, so's I can get it to curve into the barrel? Clock springs are routinely annealed for 2 or 3 inches at the outer end, so they can be bent properly to grab the hook.

Am I gonna get in trouble if I do the same thing with this one?

[Lucius1958]

Eric Reiss, in The Compleat Talking Machine, mentions bending the outer end by hand to engage the hook; but he does not mention annealing that section.

Annealing is certainly possible, although it might cut into the power of the mainspring - say, possibly 3 2-minute records instead of 4...

Bill

[bangster]

I am going to cut my losses and admit defeat. I annealed the first 5 or 6 inches of the spring, which allowed me to bend it to where I can almost get the first 5 or 6 inches into the barrel. But I don't have the strength, either manual or moral, to get the second coil started into the first. The few phono springs I've dealt with in the past have never been this strong. Apparently, nobody sells a phono mainspring winder (which seems odd--there'd surely be a market). This behemoth would certainly destroy my clock mainspring winder. So I'm left with the following plea:

Can y'all recommend anybody that would put this spring into the barrel for me, for which I would pay them money?

I could keep fighting this creature for the rest of my life, and get no further than I am now. I need to hire somebody who is able to do it, to do it so's I can eventually get the machine back to the owner.

Advice?

bangster

[bangster]

Nevvermind friends, I figured out how to make a mainspring winder myownself. Y'all probly do this all the time, but I'm pleased with myself for thinking of it. I use the machine itself as a winder, with the addition of a temporary hook to belay the end of the spring.

Phono MS winder 1.jpg (251.7 KiB) Viewed 2456 times

Phono MS winder 1 detail.jpg (211.53 KiB) Viewed 2456 times

Phono MS winder hook.jpg (207.08 KiB) Viewed 2456 times

The hook is made from copper-coated welding rod, NOT copper wire.

With gearbox removed from chassis, put spring & winding arbor in place. Add gearbox to support other end of arbor and screw it down. Put hook into hole in spring and start winding, guiding spring with gloved hand. When it's down to proper size, put on hose clamp and dog it down.

Phono MS winder 2.jpg (229.03 KiB) Viewed 2456 times

Let down spring into hose clamp. Time consuming because of the double ratchet pawl … gotta do it one tooth at a time.

Remove hook from spring.

Phono MS winder 3.jpg (215.53 KiB) Viewed 2456 times

Unscrew gearbox and lift it off. LIft off spring and arbor.

Phono MS captured.jpg (198.75 KiB) Viewed 2456 times

Remove gear & arbor from spring. Put spring into barrel as far as it will go. Release hose clamp & take it off. Worry the spring the rest of the way into the barrel.

Phono MS in barrel.jpg (247.09 KiB) Viewed 2456 times

Mission Accomplished. Whoopee!

[Lucius1958]

Pretty clever!

I'm probably past my mainspring-wrangling days, but I used the old bench vise, gloves, elbow grease, and bloody-mindedness technique for those I did service. I can confess that those first couple of coils are a bugger to get in.

Bill