The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Frankia wrote:The gentlemanly tone of the language, with its full sentences and what would now be seen as "formal" style, is so redolent of a whole existence and approach to life that was the backdrop and spawning ground of these fascinating gramophones.

I agree. For me, our interest encompasses far more than just the machines themselves---it is the appreciation and perpetuation of the standards and whole way of life before WW2 which is so perennially appealing.

Hi Graham,

I too have the same catalogue and posting envelope in my collection of ephemera! Somewhat curiously my copy has the original business address crossed out and substituted with a hand-written "Newman Street" address at the back. It was my understanding that the latter was the post-war EMG address which suggests to me that your catalogue might be as late as 1940. The same catalogues were then retained with hand-written updated address details after the war. Clearly little had changed over 6 years in terms of equipment offered in the range of products.

It's a great find. Well done.

Steve

Hello Steve and thanks for this interesting comment.

As you say, EMG moved from Grape Street to Newman Street on 10/4/48 where it remained until 30/10/67. I am sure you are right that this catalogue is likely to have continued substantially unchanged for the latter part of the nineteen-thirties (and beyond)---all acoustic models having been developed towards the beginning of that decade. The catalogue cannot be earlier than 1934 as that is when the Oversize was first introduced---according to Frank in the great book.

Maybe the catalogue owner him/herself wrote down the new address due to wanting a quick reference to stay in touch with the firm for records, needles, and soundbox tuning ?

Your observations caused me to look at a photocopy of what I thought was the same publication and I find that the first page is slightly different---still Grape Street but with added comment and the telephone number. There are no more clues as to dating.

Fascinating---one thing leads to another.............

I have just come across two more photocopies of different EMG catalogues---all three are slightly different from one another (mainly prices)---as one might expect in a commercially competitive and constantly changing marketplace. It would now appear that the original copy pictured at the top of this thread is, in fact, an earlier edition---possibly the first part of 1934 as it does not contain a reference to the Oversize.

Another copy contains details of a price reduction for three models dated 1st April 1936---see below.

The earlier price for the standard clockwork Xb in Oak, for example, was £32 (another catalogue shows £33) which, as is shown below, was reduced to £30 w.e.f. ¼/36. Similarly, the price of the Oversize was reduced from £36 (AC motor no extra charge) to £35 and finally to £33.

It is therefore certain that all these catalogues can be no later than 1st April 1936 unless prices were again increased in the late nineteen-thirties---unlikely !

Fascinating indeed. I wonder what the "improved Mark IX. type cabinet" was (indicated with the Xa in your last image Graham) - could that perhaps refer to the smallish cabinet with slanting lid aperture which we've occasionally seen?

What an interesting thought and well spotted Andy ! We have never quite discovered any information about, or reasons for, the smaller sloping lid model have we ? This may indeed be a reference. Arriving at the same time (perhaps ?) as the price reductions, it may well have been a true austerity option as the depression bit deeper ? I also don't think we knew that model was to do with the Xa in particular ? We have seen a number of different sizes of horns over the years sprouting from that slanting case suggesting that owners have often mixed and matched ? However, this lends authenticity to the gramophone recently for sale in Devon (see photo below) which exactly fits the original description. Having said all that, I am not quite sure why anyone would describe the case as an improved Mk IX equivalent which had a horn exit mounted out to the side ?

On a different subject (first image---previous post), I think it is noteworthy that Davey had tried even larger horns than the 33 ½" Oversize which ties in well with Ian's sighting of such a beast at Heathrow all those years ago awaiting transport to Japan.

It is also worth noting that there were separate workshops after WW2 at 56/58 Rochester Place N.W.I.

What a vast saving to be had if one opted for the Xa with Mark IX style case! The horn was still 28" or so, wasn't it...the same as the Expert Senior?

Yes massive---almost a third cheaper. The Expert Junior was a direct competitor at roughly the same price but only had a horn with a final diameter of 25 inches (sometimes 24 ") compared to about 28 inches of the Expert Senior and EMG Xa. Competition indeed...............

The angled-lid cases I have seen have all been made from the cheaper non-veneered pine which would seem to suggest one of the areas in which the cost savings may have been made ?

emgcr wrote:... I am not quite sure why anyone would describe the case as an improved Mk IX equivalent ...

Thinking back to wonderful times spent in your garden Graham, having seen the need to support the "outrigger" of a Mk IX case with packing pieces when fitting a larger horn (albeit a larger still Oversize), there is at least a great improvement in stability! Perhaps they also chose to streamline production and use fewer unique parts (would the sloping case be easier to make in that respect, aside from cheaper materials as already mentioned?) and the opportunity taken to subject the resulting change to a degree of sales hyperbole.

Yes, the Mk X design, with the horn emerging from the centre of the case, is intrinsically better conceived and far more stable than the unbalanced Mk IX. The design for the latter works only because the smaller (22” final diameter) horns are comparatively light with no strong/heavy base castings but, of course, the trade-off is that many suffer from droop as a consequence of having to rely structurally on weak paper.

As far as manufacturing cost is concerned, patterns for both the Mk IX and Mk X conduits had already been produced so there would have been no savings there as casting/machining costs would have been more or less identical for both types. What is interesting perhaps, is to put oneself in the MD’s shoes at the time. The horn wars were in full swing and competition was very fierce indeed---and in a very difficult worldwide economic environment. I suppose the thought may have been that the introduction of a further option in the sales range, if such could be achieved more cheaply but without compromising sound quality, could only be a bonus---ie nothing much to lose. The only requirement was to build a smaller and cheaper case---all other parts already being “on the shelf”.

As you say, the companies (both EMG and Expert) were never shy about sales hyperbole and increasing customer options for no extra production cost must have seemed logical even though they were competing against themselves in respect of the traditional Mk Xa ! However, by that time, the Xb was probably the dominant model so perhaps there was indeed a gap lower down in the market ?