The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Luckily, I own both the Vulcan 4 min. cylinder version of Charleston, and I just acquired the original Diamond Disc record, from NOS stock from the collection of Ron Dethlefson. If that used one on Ebay right now can't even be bought for $200, I'm afraid to even play my NOS copy! Thanks for all the education on this title. I think most of the original records of Charleston came out between 1923 and 1925. Probably, most bands stopped playing it by 1926 because it was probably being considered an "oldie" by then. I wonder if the Charleston dance craze died out about that time also? I know a new dance craze started sometime in 1926, I think, called Black Bottom.

Here is a 1925 version by Isham Jones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=083EaUyhO4g

BTW, this record sold for $122 on eBay a couple weeks ago.

Cliff

Been to dozens of estate sales, flea markets, and about a hundred junk shops, Goodwills, Salvation armies etc over the past three years, and have found a grand total of zero Charlestons.

78recordpicker wrote:Been to dozens of estate sales, flea markets, and about a hundred junk shops, Goodwills, Salvation armies etc over the past three years, and have found a grand total of zero Charlestons.

I have scoured flea markets and antique stores for 30 years, and not one copy of The Charleston!

I think this may have been more of a publicized recording in later years.

"The Charleston" was performed in the Broadway show Runnin' Wild, which ran for 228 performances over roughly 8 months (October 28, 1923-June 28-1924). That sounds like only a moderate hit, and as it was performed by an African-American cast, that may well have limited the show's audience at the time. Based on this, I imagine that sales of contemporary recordings of this song were not brisk. Remember, too, that sheet music sales usually exceeded disc sales for any popular song then, and also cut into disc sales.

I think estott is right that a later generation came to see "The Charleston" as the quintessential 1920s song. It received a lot more exposure than it did in the 20s when it was presented as a complete dance number in "Tea for Two," the first film to give Doris Day top billing and the 25th highest grossing movie in the USA in 1950. After that, whoever owned the publishing rights to "The Charleston" by then would be motivated to ensure that the song became the quintessential 1920s song. Thus, as Jim points out, every 1950s-era "Roaring 20s" LP offered a rendition of the song.

Best wishes, Mark

marcapra wrote:I know a new dance craze started sometime in 1926, I think, called Black Bottom.

The "Craze" for the Black Bottom was very brief- it was a synthetic attempt to create a new dance, and the tune was more successful than the dance - though I've only found one record of it (on Harmony)

I think estott has got something there too. History changes over time and we re-interpret it based on later developments. I just found one of those old The Roaring 20's albums that I bought from a thrift store back in about 1972 for 25 cents. It doesn't have Charleston on it, but that's because it's Vol. 2.

I remember there was a fad of nostalgia for the 20's when I was a kid. There was a TV show starring Dorothy Provine called The Roaring Twenties and going way back to Capra's It's a Wonderful Life from 1946 there was this little tid- bit, which helped to get The Charleston on the way to defining the era:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ0Yp-sZrKU

There was a group of 3 or 4 albums on Grand Award records, played by Enoch Light and the Light Brigade that was called "The roaring 20s". I had them and if I remember correctly, "Charleston" was the opener: Vol. 1, band 1, side 1. I remember the Dorothy Provine album from the TV show. That one was far more authentically played than the Roaring '20s series. I also remember falling in love with Red Nichols' music when This Is Your Life profiled him, somewhere around 1954 I believe.

Jim

My Grandmother was born in 1904 and when I first dragged my diamond disk machine home in the early 70's I asked her about the Charleston, and if she ever had that record. She said that she really didn't approve much of "wild jazz music" and certainly wouldn't have had a record like that in the house for all the neighbors to see! My Mom still laughs about some family that lived a few miles north of them that came home one afternoon in the 20's and found a couple of the daughters trying to learn the Charleston. So they hauled the Victrola out to the grove and burned it up with the trash! They must have been strict Baptists or something, but we do kind of forget too about the stigma that some of those songs had at the time. And that it was ok to listen to music like that at a dance or at a restaurant or hotel lobby, or even the radio. But to actually have that stuff in your home was kind of another matter.

I bought a low end orthophonic Victrola from an antique dealer about 25 years ago because it was all full of really good dance music and even had a number of Supertone "Race Series" records in it. The dealer told me it came from a local estate and she didn't think there could be anything in there but hymns since he was a pastor in town, and his father had been one also. My Mom just happened to come over to my house the day I got it home and I told her about it belonging to a pastor, et. And after she looked through about half of the records she told me that that must have been Episcopalians since they were the only one's around here that would have allowed music like that in the house.... It turned out that she was right! One of my Grandmother's sisters was still alive then and I told her about that machine and how Mom called them out on it and Esther just said, "You know, those Episcopals would have card parties, dance, drink, and everything!"

I've run across 6-8 copies over the years, and the best version I have is on the Oriole label, but the record is worn really badly. And on the subject of having the 'wrong' music in your Victrola, I think they also thought that they should have the 'right' music in their machine also. How many worn our Red Seal records have any of you run across? Or even hymns for that matter. Country music seems to be nearly always played to death or maybe they couldn't afford to change needles.

Here is one currently for sale on UK eBay, £101 with three days still to go :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1920s-JAZZ-BE ... SwnFZXWC48