The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

On the horns...

The horn on the far left that came with the machine is definitely an original. The horn on the far right (I have one just like it) I believe is a very old 1950's to Early 1970's reproduction...At least that is what I have always thought. The cone to bell ribbing is almost non-existent and looks mostly like just a "raised" area where the cone meets the bell. An original horn would have a very pronounced "ribbed" area where the cone meets the bell just like the horn on the Far left. I would have to say that the one on the left is the original one and the two on the right are both reproduction horns.

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Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

Lucius1958 wrote:
There is one detail that interests me, though. On the original horn, the crimped end seems to be fairly long, compared to an example I have. Were there variations between the early and late B&B horns?

Bill

I believe different manufacturers constructed these 14" b&b horns differently. For example, the Tea Tray Company is known to have constructed larger horns with brass tubes soldered into the small ends. Then, the company applied for a patent (granted Aug. 22, 1905) which involved crimping and shaping the small end. This technique was applied to the company's 14" b&b horns as well.

At about the same time, The Standard Metal Manufacturing Company began making horns with shaped ends, but the crimping was a bit different and not as strong as that of Tea Tray. However, Standard's earliest horns had also employed tubes in the small ends. I do not know for certain if Standard was supplying 14" b&b horns, but it's quite possible.

Hawthorne & Sheble also used straight tubes in the small ends of its early horns. H&S, like Tea Tray, applied for, and was eventually awarded, a patent for a method of shaping and crimping the small end of a horn. These ends are most often seen in the small aluminum horns supplied with some Graphophones. The relationship between Edison and H&S was strained after an 1899 lawsuit, so you won't find H&S horns supplied with Edison Phonographs as factory equipment after that point.

It's really too bad that the 14" b&b horns were not marked somehow so that their origins can be definitively known. The Aug. 22, 1905 date sometimes found stamped into a horn is the well-known Tea Tray patent, but it's not known if H&S and/or Standard manufactured similarly built/marked horns under license from Tea Tray.

At this point, I believe that most of the 14" b&b horns were manufactured by Tea Tray (with earlier production differing from later production). The vast majority of these horns were supplied with Edison machines (Offhand, I can't think of a cylinder Graphophone that came from the factory with a 14" b&b horn). There's also a possibility that Standard Metal Manufacturing supplied 14" b&b horns to Edison. The specifications for these horns would have been the same, so determining the manufacturer - especially over 110 years later, is quite difficult.

George P.

Do you want a closer picture or one of the horns inside too?? I have a closer pic of the bell. that may help you It is great shape for being old or it is one good reproduction, I will load them up Monday if Bill wants them. That horn had two rolled up edges and I eventually got them straight working them by hand and some insulated plyers so it would not scratch the horn. The rolls were not bad and you can see them somewhat but I am not an expert or have the equipment Tom B

Here are a couple of more pics of the horn. It is solidity made but???? no roll attaching it together...All this horn talk could be making me Horney I wish. Tom B