Interesting mechanical-feed disc phonograph on eBay

[JohnM]

This sort of ties in with the thread regarding emailing sellers and giving them information. Check out the additional "question" posted on this item on the eBay listing. It is poorly spelled and semi-coherent. I don't see what it adds of value to the discussion or potential sale of this item! Facts are one thing, but a combination of semi-speculation and rah-rah-rah ain't worth much even if it doesn't much influence the final price or interest in the piece.

John M

[OrthoFan]

This sort of ties in with the thread regarding emailing sellers and giving them information. Check out the additional "question" posted on this item on the eBay listing. It is poorly spelled and semi-coherent. I don't see what it adds of value to the discussion or potential sale of this item! Facts are one thing, but a combination of semi-speculation and rah-rah-rah ain't worth much even if it doesn't much influence the final price or interest in the piece.
John M

Hi John:

Could you copy & paste the comment here? I'm not an eBay member, so only part of the comment is displayed. When I click on "more," I'm taken to a "sign in/register" screen.

OF

[JohnM]

Sure!

Here 'tis:

"Q: Hello, Just wanted to let you know, I have been a collector for many years and I regard your gramophone as a very early historical piece. It most definantly would have been manefactured around about circa 1898-1902. Machines like these were made as an extra money earner as for instance when a bicycle manufacturer made bicycles they made talking machines and other parafenarlia to keep their business afloat. None the less, I think it would be a great museum piece and I hope a piece like this commands a good price for you as you don't see these everyday. All the best"

I mean . . . what's the point ultimately?

John M

[OrthoFan]

Sure!

Here 'tis:

"Q: Hello, Just wanted to let you know, I have been a collector for many years and I regard your gramophone as a very early historical piece. It most definantly would have been manefactured around about circa 1898-1902. Machines like these were made as an extra money earner as for instance when a bicycle manufacturer made bicycles they made talking machines and other parafenarlia to keep their business afloat. None the less, I think it would be a great museum piece and I hope a piece like this commands a good price for you as you don't see these everyday. All the best"

I mean . . . what's the point ultimately?

John M

Hmmmm.... My interpretation involves as much speculation as the machine in question, but if I had to venture a guess, I'd say that, aside from the fact that English may not be the writer's primary language, he is trying to say that this may have been manufactured by a company that had nothing to do with the production of phonographs or "talking machines" as its main business. The company would have manufactured and sold this, as a side line, to supplement its income derived from, for instance, the manufacture and sale of bicycles.

I'd say it would be more logical to assume, presuming that this was some type of coin-operated gramophone, that it would have been installed in a business, such as a bar, restaurant or hotel lobby, (or a bicycle shop?) to supplement the income of the business owner.

Either way, I'd never tell this to a seller, unless I knew for certain.

[JohnM]

Exactly.

[SonnyPhono]

I'm behind you 100% JohnM. I would understand if someone sent the comment to the seller to correct them due to a misrepresentation in the listing. But this auction doesn't seem to fit that situation. The seller expresses that he/she doesn't know the exact model, age, etc., and furthermore,

That being said, might this be a form of "shill" bidding? Shill bidding is when someone bids on item that they are not interested in with the sole intention of driving up the final selling price. Both the seller, and the person bidding risk being caught which could end with Ebay suspending their accounts. But in this case, is it possible that the seller created an alternate account or even instructed someone they know with an account, to post the comment in an effort to raise the final price? To many on this forum, as JohnM has said, the comment is odd and out of place. But, on the other hand, I know some people that are new to the phonograph hobby as well as some wealthy antique collectors who might read the comment and salivate at the opportunity. To those people, a comment like this adds credibility to an item, not to mention increases their desire just to bid on the item whether they win it in the end or not. In essence, a form of shill bidding...without actually bidding. Maybe?

[JohnM]

This item won't need any shill bidding!

[JohnM]

$1650

[Phonofolks]

I am surprised the Patent office allowed Mr. Williams to call it the "DS Williams Graphophone" since by 1897/1899 there was the American Graphophone Company making Graphophones and graphophone records.

[Sidewinder]

I hope that whomever gets it is willing to share whatever he knows (or learns) about it, at some point.

As you see from the picture it cleaned up very well, way beyond what I was expecting - if you recall the almost black colour of the mechanism on the Ebay photo's. And of course in a clean condition one can better see how it functions. It is a coin-op player. (definitely not a recording device)
It does look amazingly similar in style to the "DS Williams Graphophone" patent drawing



The reproducer is in a fairly flexible spring-steel arm, that is driven by a feedscrew at the rear. At the end of the record, the reproducer is lifted off the record and transported back to the beginning of the record, powered by the coiled spring on the front bar.
(The flash photo brings out more imperfections than one sees with the naked eye)


The coin slot on the bedplate is visible at the right hand side.

The crash and burn of this machine is the built in obsolecence, because of the fact that the fancy and complicated mechanism restricts it to play 7 inch records!

It is however missing its cover. From 1 remaining piece that is present one can deduce from the construction that the cover would have been a wood frame with glass windows. However whether rectangular in shape or with curved glass remains a mystery and I'm hesitant to re-guess its form and make a fantasy replacement. The chute from the top of the case into the motor is obviously also missing.

The long-throat reproducer was probably connected with a flexible hose to an aperture in the case where a horn would be attached.

For me a very interesting, and superbly constructed item, from the early days of disc phonographs, mixed with an unfortunate shortsightenness that probably gave the machine a very short span of usefulness. If anyone comes across a picture or info that would help complete it correctly, that would be an immense help.