The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

The gear cover appears to be original to the machine and not a retro fit. Also if I'm not mistaken we have had this decussion about these early Standards as having many variations.

Rich Gordon

martinola wrote:Alistair,
I can only guess that the single screw type clips were on their way out when the Standard started production. Remember the Home had this type of clip some months before the Standard came out, so perhaps the complaints were already rolling in. Perhaps some of the early Standards having the two screw type may be due to early dealer replacement of the inferior single screw clips.

At this date we also have to look through the haze of collectors "upgrading" their machines without regard to the historical record. (By the way, we now know that the historical record is a cylinder. But I digress...)

Looking at the first 3000 machines, I see a mix of both types going back as far as #43. In general, the earlier machines tend to have the single screw type and the later machines tend to have the two screw type. I hope this helps because now I'm confused.

Georg,
Why not try to repair or conserve your lid? Personally, I'd rather have a partially compromised original than a spiffy replacement. I encourage you to start a thread on your machine and post some photos of its issues. Sometimes that alone will present the solution you are looking for.


Regards,
Martin

Regards

I agree and I am attempting that. It's pretty shredded, though. Someone reglued it in the past and white vinegar is really having a struggle trying to dissolve the glue... not very effective.

The way I usually handle these things is to repair and keep the original part with the machine even if it's unsatisfactory, and display with a replacement. That way if I ever move it on it'll have both, too.

Your machine is great... makes me want to get mine on par. I was glad to see this thread pop up to get some perspective.

Alistair & Rich,
My feeling is that #283 was one of the machines that got returned early on for warranty repair. The Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion does mention that the early Standards had problems and many early machines were rejected as defective. #283 has attributes of a run of later machines issued about the end of 1899. The attributes are: serial number also on straight edge, bearing end screws, type 2 patent plate and of course the gear guard. There is a sprinkling of machines mixed in the first 19000 machines that have these later attributes. It is my hunch that #283 received a whole new bedplate with the original number retained.

I first became aware of this machine in 2011 when MT Phono owned it. (I since learned that earlier Rene Rondeau had owned it.) The case was likely switched when it was sold on ebay by a seller in Altoona, PA in 2013. I have a previous photo of it when it had 4 hooks and eyes on either end (probably an early attempt to strengthen the case for carrying). The same seller ended up selling another early Standard with a hook and eye set up at around the same time. Actually both 2331 & 6223 were offered with a case like that. Ultimately 6223 ended up with the case and was parted out on ebay early this year.

Stuff like this really muddies the waters. The original (or at least the pre-2013) case had a bead on the upper lip of the bottom case and the lid had none. In my photo I can't see the top of the lid but I'd guess that it was a slightly later style with the rounded top edge. The current lid is the early type, but I'd guess that the lower case is slightly later. This machine has had quite a history!

Regards,
Martin

I did own #283 once upon a time. I bought it from Charley Hummel in 2001, from an eBay auction (it didn't meet reserve but we made a private deal afterward). I sold it to the late Bill Ptacek in 2002. I suspect it then went to Stanton's along with most of the rest of Bill's collection after he died in 2004.

It did have the added-on hooks on the case when I owned it. There was no gear cover but the base plate was drilled and tapped for the screws to hold one. The top of the lower case had the bead as mentioned.

I'd love to see some pictures of Standard #S4 that was purchased by one of the forum members from Roger Shingler. I tried a few years ago to purchase it from Roger but he didn't want to sell it at the time. When I asked Roger again he had sold it. What a prize to have Standard S4.

Rich Gordon

^^^^

Here you go.

Beautiful machine. Thank you for posting the link to your site. Jealous I am.

Rich Gordon

Not my site, though I wish it were!!

This is a very interesting thread. I did not know the earliest of Standards had a brass mandrel, brass weights, and a carriage with single screw clips. I do have a question: When did the Standards go to the more familiar, "S" shaped crank? I have a 4-clip that was missing the crank, so I found the early crank. It did not fit, because the winding shaft is too fat. The "S" shaped crank fits perfectly. I thought all the Suitcase Standards used that earlier crank.
Harvey Kravitz

Phonofreak wrote:This is a very interesting thread. I did not know the earliest of Standards had a brass mandrel, brass weights, and a carriage with single screw clips. I do have a question: When did the Standards go to the more familiar, "S" shaped crank? I have a 4-clip that was missing the crank, so I found the early crank. It did not fit, because the winding shaft is too fat. The "S" shaped crank fits perfectly. I thought all the Suitcase Standards used that earlier crank.
Harvey Kravitz

If you go to the Antique Phonograph Society's website, they have a "Spotter's Guide to the Edison Standard", which details the history of its various models.

The crank was redesigned for the "New Model A", as the first design proved liable to breakage.

Bill