The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Guys, don't get tripped up by the germany ebay page. I changed the .de in the url to .com and it comes up with everything in american terms... url can also be changed to .ca to have Canadian.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FRENCH-GRAMOPHO ... SwEzxYP1rV
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FRENCH-GRAMOPHON ... SwEzxYP1rV

If jratchfordsympatico.ca was the "seller " why doesn't it appear as a sold item by him ? http://www.ebay.com/sch/jratchfordsympa ... 6732.m1684

I asked him if he was aware of this and he replied

Indeed, Jean-Paul, how can you be so sure that it is the same exact unit that you used to own? All of the pictures posted here are of very low quality, and at least by them I am absolutely unable to tell if the same machine is pictured.

I am sorry that you alarm-phono was not paid in full, but the fact that this is the same machine being resold by the same person is a bit jumping to conclusions in my opinion, at least by the documents you provided.

Although the resolution on Jean-Paul's website is indeed very poor and the angles on both sets are different, I spotted several small blemishes/production marks that render it practically impossible that were are looking at two different clocks. Please do also have a look on the other photos in the auction with the opened lid.
Even on low-resolution photos, the wood grain is normally as good as a fingerprint. The different angle simply inverted the colors, but the pattern remains the same. It is a little forensic and I am not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing, but I am certain, that it is the the very same clock.

I second Norman's opinion and likewise have no doubt that it is the same machine. The renewed bottom plate is there and the mouldings are again missing (leaving the empty nail holes). Within the limits of the rather blurry images there is also a good correlation in more subtle details, as demonstrated by Norman.

By the way, instead of maligning the reputation of Mr. Agnard, distracting from his own role, the seller would be better placed to cooperate. For example disclosing the identity of the "reputable Toronto dealer" and the "middle aged Anglo Saxon Toronto resident" to either Mr. Agnard or the police.

Interestingly it seems to have been on sale previously to the buy it now for 7 days at a starting bid of $500 , doesn't seem to have been bid on !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRENCH-GRAMOP ... rmvSB=true

soundgen wrote:Interestingly it seems to have been on sale previously to the buy it now for 7 days at a starting bid of $500 , doesn't seem to have been bid on !

Someone had placed a bid of US $550, but it was cancelled five days later, when the auction was broken off "because there was an error in the listing": http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... 7675.l2565

It seems that eBay could help with the ID of the US buyer, who may be willing to cooperate or at least return the clock to Jean Paul (or face complicity in receiving stolen goods). If it was paid for by PayPal, the buyer would be able to get reimbursed for his purchase by PayPal, which would leave the problem in the lap of the uncooperative seller to deal with...

eBay just needs to be pressed a little harder to make them give up the identity of the buyer, which they obviously know...

WDC wrote:It is a little forensic and I am not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing, but I am certain, that it is the the very same clock.

Well, you did a very good attorney job in convincing me that the two clocks are the same unit but I wonder if a real-life judge would ever take in consideration photos of such low quality. But we're digressing.

I agree that the Police should be involved, and I wonder why it wasn't until now.

Starkton wrote:I second Norman's opinion and likewise have no doubt that it is the same machine. The renewed bottom plate is there and the mouldings are again missing (leaving the empty nail holes). Within the limits of the rather blurry images there is also a good correlation in more subtle details, as demonstrated by Norman.

By the way, instead of maligning the reputation of Mr. Agnard, distracting from his own role, the seller would be better placed to cooperate. For example disclosing the identity of the "reputable Toronto dealer" and the "middle aged Anglo Saxon Toronto resident" to either Mr. Agnard or the police.

The whole thing would seem to be quite problematic - the 'sale' to the chinese person was 18 months ago .$1000 was paid then and so all that remains is a dispute over the price of the item - I'm sure the chinese person will claim that this was full payment and in the absence of anything in writing it would be difficult to disprove in law.
The chinese person may well have sold it on to the 'anglo saxon' person , who in turn has sold it via the eBay seller , neither of whom have done anything wrong.

Steve