The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

If you're just starting-out collecting phonographs, suggest you purchase some books such as Fabrizio & Paul's - "The Phonograph: an Illustrated Compendium", and Eric Reiss -"The Compleat Talking Machine", both of which give excellent histories of various companies. The Compendium is full of beautiful color photographs, and Reiss's book has a lot of good tech tips.

You can do some "window shopping" in terms of seeing which machines appeal to you.

Also, learn which machines play only certain types of records: Cylinder players - 2 minute or 4 minute-only machines; Lateral-cut (Victor, Columbia, etc.) vs. Vertical cut {Pathé`, early Emerson, Edison Diamond Disc) records, "Odd-spindle machines": Standard (½"), United ( 1-½"), Aretino ( 3 "). While these machines are neat in their uniqueness, single-taskers can take up a lot of space and may have limited resale appeal (?). Also, finding records can be challenging. For some, this kind of challenge is part of the attraction.

In general terms, Victor, Edison, and Brunswick made top-quality machines, even in their lower price points. You won't find better cabinet work than Victor or Brunswick.

Columbia, while a very old name in talking machines, are not quite as robustly built, but nice examples can provide a lot of enjoyment. I have a Grafonola Deluxe in American Walnut that is every bit as impressive as my 1909 L-door Victrola.

Silvertone machines are also of high build quality.


Once you go beyond these brands, you start getting out into the weeds.



Examine potential purchases very closely before hand. Most 1912 - later machines employ zinc die-castings (pot metal) somewhere ( particularly Columbia, and other "off-brands" ), and early pot-metal alloys are notoriously unstable, and are usually cracked, swollen, crumbling. Reproduction parts are available for more popular machines (Columbia, Victor Orthophonic), but probably not for more "unique "machines.


Try to get the best condition cabinetry that you can; factory finishes were done by highly trained professionals, and recreating them takes a tremendous amount of time and talent. Watch for loose glue-joints, missing glue blocks or decorative appliques, lifting / damaged veneer...

Thanks for the great info Frank!

Chris,

You've received some excellent advice. It's especially encouraging that you want to educate yourself before spending money on antique phonographs. I've seen so many who do this backwards that I've pretty much given up on convincing anyone to stop and get that horse back out in front of the cart. Many are driven by their emotions, and that can have sad (and often expensive) consequences. Good for you for taking a more reasoned approach.

Jerry once posted a suggested list of books useful for collectors. You'll find it under "Links" on the Home Page, or here:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =8&t=20350

Many of us are believers in education up front. Attending phonograph shows/sales is very helpful, in that you can see the artifacts in person. Your brain unconsciously soaks up a huge amount of data which will serve you well when considering a purchase. The color of a wooden cabinet; the precise angle of a horn on a disc machine; the width of a pinstripe... After seeing hundreds of examples, when something is not quite right, it will jump right out at you.

Of course, not everyone can make it to these shows. That's when books can be invaluable. A picture speaks a thousand words, and many kind folks compliment the pictures in our books. However, I'm quick to point out that, in the book recommended in the post above for instance, there are over 550 captions and 70-odd full pages of single-spaced text. Sometimes I think people get caught up in the eye candy and forget to read the result of all that research!

The Internet contains lots of information, but much of it is inaccurate. As you gain knowledge, you'll spot it for yourself. However, the Antique Phonograph Society web site can be considered safe ground. There are lots of articles available to the public, and even more (over 10,000 pages) available to members in a searchable database:

http://www.antiquephono.org/

I've said enough - - Continue on the road you're on and you'll avoid the mistakes we "old timers" made because we didn't have so many good sources of information.

Best of luck,

George P.

Fellow Ayn Rand fan and New Yorker (Adirondacks) here.
Thanks for your kind words George but in the end, it's because I was raised by my Depression era grandmother who taught me to spend a dollar just once.
Also, I'm just a very deliberate person that loves minutia.
Wow... that a great list of books.
I keep forgetting to sign up for your website... tomorrow I promise.
This has happened to me a couple times in my life... lifting up a random rock and discovering a whole new world.
I've always LOVED music and considered myself well rounded but now I am familiar with Fats Waller, Tommy Dorsey, Gene Krupa, Ma Rainey and my new favorite genre of Hokum.

phonogfp wrote:The color of a wooden cabinet; the precise angle of a horn on a disc machine; the width of a pinstripe... After seeing hundreds of examples, when something is not quite right, it will jump right out at you.

I can't second these sentiments enough. After having decided that you want to purchase a specific model, nothing is more useful than dig as much photos as possible of the desired gramophone. In my opinion, even the internet is very useful to do this, provided that pictures of units in the hands of experienced collectors are viewed. After having seen hundreds of images, even the lesser "weird" details, hidden modifications or small non-original components will jump right at your eyes.

phonogfp wrote:Attending phonograph shows/sales is very helpful, in that you can see the artifacts in person.

What shows happen, when and where?
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there is one on the East Coast.

One more thing... ONLY buy things that you personally like, not just what you think might be worth something more now or in the future. Too many factors can change if you pursue the "investment" route, not the least of which is the eventual death of older collectors who may collect certain items that were important to them when growing up and are now not appreciated by new collectors. If you buy only what you like, it will never be an issue to you if the value or popularity of certain items declines and you won't be "stuck" with things that you can't sell for the amount you paid, since that doesn't matter - you still like them.

CMcPherson wrote:

phonogfp wrote:Attending phonograph shows/sales is very helpful, in that you can see the artifacts in person.

What shows happen, when and where?
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there is one on the East Coast.

Chris,
I have been trying to resurrect the shows in North Carolina, but the road blocks are getting cooperation from members of the CAMPS organization... no one seems to be able to make decisions and no one wants to help getting it going. I have found a "perfect" space - 5,000 square feet, available Wednesday thru Sunday for a reasonable price near Charlotte, NC just outside the city where there are many restaurants, hotels/motels and does not require going in to the city of Charlotte. It is accessible from I-77, I-485, I-85 and local roads... It is available for several dates in March and April of 2017. The owners are not only cooperative, but excited to have it as an annual event with reasonable expectations of only 30 dealers which should be no problem... Anyone interested in making this happen, please PM me...

CMcPherson wrote:

phonogfp wrote:Attending phonograph shows/sales is very helpful, in that you can see the artifacts in person.

What shows happen, when and where?
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there is one on the East Coast.

You're in luck - - every spring and fall there's a show in Wayne NJ. The next one is on April 9, 2017, and you can keep track of future shows here:

http://www.antique-sound.com/show.html

There's also a show in Orlando FL every January, but I don't have information on that. I'm sure someone else will.

Other major shows are in Union IL every June, and in Buena Park, CA every August.

CMcPherson wrote: I keep forgetting to sign up for your website... tomorrow I promise.

Just to clarify; it's not "my" web site, but that of an international Society. I merely support its mission and activities. The quarterly journal alone is well worth the annual dues, and the newly-expanded web site with its Members Only searchable archive is a researcher's dream.

Have fun!

George P.

Curt A wrote:One more thing... ONLY buy things that you personally like, not just what you think might be worth something more now or in the future.

That's exactly where my head is at.
I've learned the hard way that it's not a good idea to follow an obscure niche hobby or collection with a profit motive.
Only speaking for myself but doing so either removes the interest or lightens the wallet.

Curt A wrote: I have been trying to resurrect the shows in North Carolina... Anyone interested in making this happen, please PM me...

I wish I could offer more than the attendance of my young son and I.