The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Jerry Blais, not savvy enough to use quote function or. add topic (apologies)! Here are 2 photos posted in November 2011 that I plucked off that show ID plate below mandrel on a 1a.This machine was said to be serial #65. It is interesting. I like my machine and hope to enjoy for many years. Thanks for commenting. Thanks to a SEASONED phonograph deliverer as you are and have posted about many times with sage advice, I had no problem handling this machine (remove crank, disconnect horn and remove that mechanism)! Steve Levi

Awesome find Steve! Just in time for Christmas!! I know the machine will deliver many years of enjoyment to you. Happy Holidays!!

Mike

Thanks Mike. I am trying to follow in your footsteps. I will be getting closer if I run across an M reproducers! Thought while I am posting, I would reference "THE TALKING MACHINE" an illustrated. COMPENDIUM 1877-1929 by Tim Fabrizio & George Paul, page 183, photograph 5-17 shows Amberola #48 that has ID plate below mandrel. Steve Levi

Steve Levi wrote: Thought while I am posting, I would reference "THE TALKING MACHINE" an illustrated. COMPENDIUM 1877-1929 by Tim Fabrizio & George Paul, page 183, photograph 5-17 shows Amberola #48 that has ID plate below mandrel. Steve Levi

I just looked that up myself in my book and the Amberola 1A serial #48 in that picture has the early cabinet with lyre grille as expected which seems logical for such an early serial number. Interestingly, in that picture there are two ID plates and although we don't know for certain by the pictures one would (and should) presume that both ID plates indicate serial #48.

What seems odd to me, first, was the rationale at the Edison factory for installing two ID plates on any early Amberolas. One would naturally presume if two ID plates were factory installed on an Amberola (or any phonograph) that the serial numbers should match. Otherwise a customer would be confused even in those early days.

A logical conclusion with yours (which admittedly was confusing to me in my first post) would be that someone swapped the works from an early Amberola 1A (serial #126) into the later Amberola 1B cabinet (serial #4387). I can't see the model number clearly on your cabinet ID plate picture but it appears to be "B1" which would make sense with that serial number.

All speculation aside this is a beautiful machine and I would be proud to own it. The oak cabinet coupled with the maroon Amberola 1a works brings together the prettiest of the early Amberola options.

Doug

FellowCollector wrote: I just looked that up myself in my book and the Amberola 1A serial #48 in that picture has the early cabinet with lyre grille as expected which seems logical for such an early serial number. Interestingly, in that picture there are two ID plates and although we don't know for certain by the pictures one would (and should) presume that both ID plates indicate serial #48.

Both data plate on Amberola No.48 carry the serial number.

FellowCollector wrote: What seems odd to me, first, was the rationale at the Edison factory for installing two ID plates on any early Amberolas. One would naturally presume if two ID plates were factory installed on an Amberola (or any phonograph) that the serial numbers should match. Otherwise a customer would be confused even in those early days.
Doug

Not only the customer, but the jobber and the dealer too. Without consistent serial numbering, inventories could not be tracked, prices paid could not be verified, and the parent company would have had no recourse should repossession have become necessary. It's unfortunate that some collectors have "mixed and matched" early Amberola and Diamond Disc mechanisms with cabinets, forever making mismatched machines. Still, the one shown is this thread needs no apology - - it's a beauty.

George P.

phonogfp wrote: Not only the customer, but the jobber and the dealer too. Without consistent serial numbering, inventories could not be tracked, prices paid could not be verified, and the parent company would have had no recourse should repossession have become necessary. It's unfortunate that some collectors have "mixed and matched" early Amberola and Diamond Disc mechanisms with cabinets, forever making mismatched machines. Still, the one shown is this thread needs no apology - - it's a beauty.

George P.

Some people argue that the mechanisms could have been switched at the factory or by dealers who made repairs back in the day. I have my doubts about that as it seems to me unlikely a mechanism would have been switched due to a broken spring or other mechanical problem. These were viewed as expensive instruments. So much more likely imho that only the defective part would have been repaired.

With the Amberola IIIs and 1Bs it seems they quit caring about this after awhile. Possibly less was paid ad the Diamond Discs took over as the flagship?

The early collectors on the other hand were just happy to find parts and if that meant cannibalizing something to make something else work they did it whether it would have been offered that way or not.

I've refinished a couple of those earlier Pooley cabinets with the lyre grille and they certainly have their issues. For one thing, the later cabinet has a molding around the bottom and the one with the lyre grille just has that "fish belly" hanging down in the sides. And since they also didn't put any finish on the bottom of those cabinets so if they got stuck out in a damp place, barn, garage, or chicken house there isn't anything to keep the veneer in place around the base of those cabinets. (I got a Victrola XVI out of a chicken house about 30 years ago with chicken dropping piled up to a point on it!) And the bottom board under the cabinet warps and cups badly since there isn't any finish on it either. Then the bottom drawer sticks or is impossible to use.

I can totally understand why Victor and Edison starting making their own cabinets as soon as they could, but the shortcomings of those early cabinets probably didn't start showing up until they weren't seeing much use anymore. The last one of those I refinished had all kinds of loose and chipped up veneer around the bottom and that machine had always been kept inside. It was nearly full of two minute wax records that look like new. 50-60 years ago it would have been hard to justify re-veneering the sides of the cabinet like that and it was probably just simpler to find an empty case to put the works into. Lots of that stuff was getting parted out for outside horn machines in those days, and I really wonder how many collectors back then would have known the serial numbers were supposed to match? Or care when it was probably only a $25 thing at most anyway. The later cabinet is better looking to me anyway and it's certainly a nice find.

Tom Fretty came up with 10-15 stripped out Edison cabinets back when I was a kid in the 70's. Maybe this is where one of those went to. He had one of those A-375 cabinets at the time all stripped out and it seems like he wanted $300 for it. He always was on the high side though with prices.