The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

That's a B motor, and the serial number indicates the machine left the factory about August 1906. Here's a question: Does the hole for the speed control have paint on its insides?

It's a puzzle alright.

George P.

Its doesnt have any chips or cracks that would indicate a drill from the top (poor drilling) little discoloration around the hole but its still black. If it was an add on it had to be a dealer. It looks really good, not a hack job.

It's clearly not a hack job. My question is whether it came from the factory that way. If there's no paint INSIDE the hole, it probably didn't come from the factory that way. Remove the speed control knob and and take a look inside from the top.

One thing's for sure - the hole is smaller dimensionally than those cast in the Model A bedplates.

Also - it's difficult to tell from the photo, but the speed control knob itself seems to resemble a Graphophone knob more than an Edison. If so, another vote for a dealer job.

George P.

Great point!!! I will check that.


It was hard to tell because it is not bright silver inside, but I do not see a lot of black inside the hole either. SO could be a dealer modify?

What else is interesting is how they extended the speed control knob with a brass pin. I doubt the factory would have done it that way.

Rich Gordon

Looking closer at the pictures it's pretty obvious that the motor is a model B and the speed control hole was added later as it is definitely a smaller hole than a factory issue Edison Standard model A speed control hole.

The odd brass pin on the end of the speed control knob (which definitely appears to be Edison) leads me to believe that the original owner (or possibly a subsequent one) simply wanted to be able to control the speed top side rather than having to remove the crank, lift the works and adjust the speed. I have seen this done on another Edison Standard model B and it appeared to me that it was done by a machine shop. Who knows for sure in this instance?

If one is playing earlier brown wax cylinders which can vary considerably relative to playback speed along with black wax cylinders then I can definitely see why an owner would want to be able to easily and quickly adjust the speed top side.

rgordon939 wrote:What else is interesting is how they extended the speed control knob with a brass pin. I doubt the factory would have done it that way.

I completely agree.

Doug

I've seen a few of these non-ICS latter-day machines configured this way. This one is #18. While anything is possible in the last 110 years, it seems like a lot of trouble for a Collector to go through. Perhaps this model B's first owner originally had a two clip machine with a fair collection of 120 or 144 rpm records. An enterprising dealer might make an upgrade more attractive with an upstairs speed control. I agree that this was probably not the factory's work.

I've broken out the top mounted non-ICS data in my sheet for easy filtering. It's in the ICS, ITC, Top Spd column. Here's the latest excel sheet:
Regards,
Martin

FellowCollector wrote: The odd brass pin on the end of the speed control knob (which definitely appears to be Edison) leads me to believe that the original owner (or possibly a subsequent one) simply wanted to be able to control the speed top side rather than having to remove the crank, lift the works and adjust the speed.

I agree that there must have been a number of purchasers who were unhappy with the Model B speed control having been put out of handy reach. Those with collections of brown wax would have been at a disadvantage adjusting between 160, 144, and even 120 rpm on a factory Standard Model B. That fact that Martin has documented eighteen of these modifications suggests that some dealers offered the alteration as a service. (Thanks for that, Martin!)

As for the knob "definitely appear[ing] to be Edison," we'll have to disagree. Given the quality of the single photo of the top of the knob, I'm not willing to say anything definite. However, the speed knobs on my two suitcase Standards (one a 2-clip; the other a 4-clip) are thinner, and the plating is not the high-luster job usually seen on Graphophone speed knobs. The knob on the machine in question - in my opinion - more resembles a Graphophone knob than an Edison. It doesn't really matter.

George P.

I cannot thank all of you enough. I really appreciate all of your help and insight. I am not going to be keeping this machine, so I guess it will have a story with it.

It had me stumped! I just could not make sense of what I was seeing with it! I am pretty new to the game so I assumed I was missing something.

Yeah,

I would say that - that is a well done "Custom" Modification as well.. No harm done..

)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer