The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

hearsedriver wrote:What is the difference between a C-19 and a C-250?

The C 250 was re-named the C 19 in 1919. They were both marketed as the "Chippendale."

Forum member Fran Pratt conducted exhaustive research (with help from a number of members of this forum) on the Chippendales. His Edison C250/C19 Database; Production Estimates 1915 - 1925 is posted on the APS web site:

https://www.antiquephono.org/edison-c-2 ... -1925-pdf/

Fran also wrote a 4-part article on the Chippendales that appeared over the course of a year in The Antique Phonograph. That work will probably stand as the "last word" on this popular model for a long time.

George P.

Thanks George. I thought they looked identical. I should really go buy the C250 that is local to me for $250.00.

hearsedriver wrote:What is the difference between a C-19 and a C-250?

The big difference is that the record storage was converted from the door-shelf on the C-19 to a pullout drawer on the C-250. Other than that, the machines are completely identical.

RolandVV-360 wrote:

hearsedriver wrote:What is the difference between a C-19 and a C-250?

The big difference is that the record storage was converted from the door-shelf on the C-19 to a pullout drawer on the C-250. Other than that, the machines are completely identical.

I believe you mean, "converted from the pullout drawers on the C-250 to the door-shelf on the C-19". The C-250 is the earlier version.

Bill

RolandVV-360 wrote:

hearsedriver wrote:What is the difference between a C-19 and a C-250?

The big difference is that the record storage was converted from the door-shelf on the C-19 to a pullout drawer on the C-250. Other than that, the machines are completely identical.

Well, not quite "completely identical."

As I stated above, the C 250 came first. Record storage was indeed in drawers (5-compartment). However, the first C 19s had the same drawers. Then, about 4000 C 19s were built with drawers featuring individual dividers. Only then did the shelf storage system appear, and there were two versions of that.

Motor plates were pin striped on the early C 250. However, later C 250s and the C 19 motor plates lacked pin striping.

There are 5 different data plate designs known for the C 250, and two different data plate designs known for the C 19.

There are 4 known versions of the "Official Laboratory Model" medallions. At least three of these medallion designs can be found on the C 250; the fourth design only on the C 19.

There are also differences in motor plates between some C 250s and C 19s, as well as governor design.

All this and much more is explained and illustrated in full color in Fran Pratt's 4-part article which appeared in The Antique Phonograph from December 2015 through September 2016. APS members can read any journal article - past or present - at the web site: www.antiquephono.org.

George P.

Most C250 machines are fitted with record storage drawers. All C19 machines are !fitted with the Silicate Indexes.

Uncle Vanya wrote:Most C250 machines are fitted with record storage drawers. All C19 machines are !fitted with the Silicate Indexes.

I have owned a C 19 with drawers, and in the articles I referenced above, the author documents both the 5-compartment and the individual slot-type drawers in early C 19s. The vast majority of C 19s had silicate indexed shelves, but not the earliest examples.

George P.

I was typing from my pad, and missed a couple of words. All C19 machines which I have owned(and I have owned dozens) were fitted with the Silicate Indexes. Thanks for correcting me.

Somewhere in storage I have a Half Cabinet machine, either. C200 or a W19, I cannot recall, which has the drawer fitted with I individual Silicate dividers. What's the scoop on that?

Uncle Vanya wrote: Somewhere in storage I have a Half Cabinet machine, either. C200 or a W19, I cannot recall, which has the drawer fitted with I individual Silicate dividers. What's the scoop on that?

I can only guess that it would date from the same period when the C 19 was equipped with a similar arrangement in its drawers. Hopefully Fran will chime in here with more information.

George P.

phonogfp wrote:

Uncle Vanya wrote: Somewhere in storage I have a Half Cabinet machine, either. C200 or a W19, I cannot recall, which has the drawer fitted with I individual Silicate dividers. What's the scoop on that?

I can only guess that it would date from the same period when the C 19 was equipped with a similar arrangement in its drawers. Hopefully Fran will chime in here with more information.

George P.

George, I think you've hit the nail on the head. It appears that TAE, Inc. had planned to discontinue the drawer record storage systems across the entirety of the Diamond Disc Phonograph models, in favor of the obviously less costly vertical individual record divider storage system. As was typical with the company, they would've used the older inventory of drawers until the supply was exhausted, so we observe the drawers outfitted with a "transitional" system utilizing the silicate dividers installed into the drawers preceding a vertical shelf system.

ALL C 250s that I have observed -- and believe to have all the original features remaining intact -- are found only with the 5-compartment drawers. The C 19, however, utilized all 4 types of record storage observed, changing as the model progressed.

The C 250 was transitioned into the C 19 in the spring of 1919, and the C 19 is found with this feature installed into their drawers, apparently for only a few thousand units (I've observed them used throughout serial numbers 75,144 - 79,304: approximately Mid-March through Mid-May, 1919). It can only make sense that other models would have also been affected beginning around this time period, and proceeded until the old inventories were depleted.

Unfortunately, this usage of vertical dividers was a poor choice in regard to the storage of Re-Creations with paper labels affixed, as the labels could/can be damaged or completely torn off from contact with the glued edges of the applied silicate material of the dividers becoming detached from their heavy paperboard substrate.

Best,
Fran