A-150 Question

[Valecnik]

I just checked Valencik's machine pics and noted that the reproducer has a sound control baffle built in. The one I just got is the same. I don't recall seeing that before. The one pictured here does not appear to have that. Is it indicative of an early machine if the sound baffle is present?

I don't know if the sound baffle was an early introduction but it was probably short lived. Mine came with the machine and the SN is 1062. I've heard it was rather quickly abandoned as it damaged the records when it was closed tightly. For those of you who have not seen how it is, at least mine is a pretty thick piece of felt that when turned shut, almost totally seals the throat of the reproducer. What's yours, Schweg?

[phonogfp]

Here's A-150 No.6087, and its reproducer has the throat baffle as well. I believe this was an early expedient taken on the A-150 to avoid the more expensive ball-type horn mute and its activator. As Bruce points out, closing off the baffle causes counter-vibrations to the diaphragm, and over time, damage to the record.

Note that the lateral attachment was fitted with the same baffle - - but someone removed it at some point. The Edison reproducer uses a thick felt washer. It was also removed when I obtained the machine, but I found a loose baffle in a box of reproducer parts at Union a few years ago.
George P.

[Valecnik]

Here's A-150 No.6087, and its reproducer has the throat baffle as well. I believe this was an early expedient taken on the A-150 to avoid the more expensive ball-type horn mute and its activator. As Bruce points out, closing off the baffle causes counter-vibrations to the diaphragm, and over time, damage to the record.

Note that the lateral attachment was fitted with the same baffle - - but someone removed it at some point. The Edison reproducer uses a thick felt washer. It was also removed when I obtained the machine, but I found a loose baffle in a box of reproducer parts at Union a few years ago.
George P.

I stumbled across a short explanation toward the back of the last edition of Frow's book. Acc. to the book, the first sound dampening device was the familiar cotton ball. The baffle was introduced during the war as an "economy measure" and after a short run the cotton ball was reintroduced.

Since I don't think the earliest dd machines had any sort of sound dampening at all, I suppose people could have had these baffles installed in older reproducers or purchased later reproducers incorporating the baffle in order to have some sort of volume control, just guessing on that though.

For any machine I'd want to listen to from time to time I'd not want the baffle in there as I would assume it reduces the sound volume even when fully open. They are pretty thick. In fact I had a second oxidised reproducer, with no baffle, rebuilt and now usually leave that on the A150. I keep the one with the baffle though, so far not rebuilt, because that's the one that came with the machine. If I would decide to sell it, I'd put it back on.

Really interesting that the lateral reproducer was fitted with the same device. Another interesting difference about your machine George is that the brake is gold wash. On mine the brake,speed control, crank escutcheon, crank, pretty much everything but the lid support, are all oxidised.

Another variant on the A150 I've seen is at least one mahogany example was fitted with caster cups, fitting over the bottoms of the legs, like on a Sheraton. It made it about an inch and a half taller and to me a bit more elegant. Like a dummy I sold that machine some years back.

[schweg]

The one I have is S/N 2898, I took a few pics to illustrate how it works.







Sorry it's blurry- it says PAT. PND G


Festive backdrop courtesy of my wife..

[phonophan79]

Wow, great pics! Thanks for sharing.

[phonogfp]

I stumbled across a short explanation toward the back of the last edition of Frow's book. Acc. to the book, the first sound dampening device was the familiar cotton ball. The baffle was introduced during the war as an "economy measure" and after a short run the cotton ball was reintroduced.

With all respect to Mr. Frow, the theory of an "economy measure" during the war has no basis in chronology. The A-150 wasn't manufactured after December 1914, and the war had started only 5 months before that point. Besides, the Edison is an American machine, and the U.S. didn't enter the war until April 1917: over two years after the A-150 had ceased production.

On page 207 of the 1982 edition of The Edison Disc Phonographs and the Diamond Discs, by George Frow, he wrote the following:

During the War the mute ball was discontinued and a U-shaped damper made of spring steel with a felt pad substituted.

Bruce, is this the point you referenced? If so, I don't believe Frow was referring to the reproducer baffle, but to a different horn mute design (he is not too clear on this, is he?). I seem to remember encountering a large felt pad in an Edison horn years ago, but my memory of this is fuzzy.

Nice photos, Steve! That's the baby, alright.

George P.

[Valecnik]

I stumbled across a short explanation toward the back of the last edition of Frow's book. Acc. to the book, the first sound dampening device was the familiar cotton ball. The baffle was introduced during the war as an "economy measure" and after a short run the cotton ball was reintroduced.

With all respect to Mr. Frow, the theory of an "economy measure" during the war has no basis in chronology. The A-150 wasn't manufactured after December 1914, and the war had started only 5 months before that point. Besides, the Edison is an American machine, and the U.S. didn't enter the war until April 1917: over two years after the A-150 had ceased production.

On page 207 of the 1982 edition of The Edison Disc Phonographs and the Diamond Discs, by George Frow, he wrote the following:

During the War the mute ball was discontinued and a U-shaped damper made of spring steel with a felt pad substituted.

Bruce, is this the point you referenced? If so, I don't believe Frow was referring to the reproducer baffle, but to a different horn mute design (he is not too clear on this, is he?). I seem to remember encountering a large felt pad in an Edison horn years ago, but my memory of this is fuzzy.

Nice photos, Steve! That's the baby, alright.

George P.

George, I was looking at the paperback edition, first American printing, 2001, top of page 207. In that one the text is the same that you quote above. Next to it is a picure of a reproducer with what appears to be the same device. Two sentences after the bit you quoted, in italics is written, Diamond Disc reproducer with small green felt damper located in the neck joint and controlled by turning the small knob.. This seems to indicate the picture is in reference to the text you quoted. It seems to me Frow is speaking of the reproducer baffle here.

On page 206 he says that the "mute ball" "was introduced in the A250 from November 1914 followed by the A150...". Then applied to other models. At the top of page 207 he goes on to say that the damper was introduced "during the war...".

If he is right, this would mean that the A150 was already nearly out of production with the start of the war in Europe, by the time the damper was introduced, and that A150 machines with the reproducer damper must have been retrofitted starting sometime during the war. It's not clear whether he means America's entry to the war but if so, that would already be even later, 1917. ??? To further muddy things, if that's possible, the number of the "dampered" oxisidised reproducer I have is 4623. The one "without damper" is earlier, numbered 3364.

Schweg, Great pictures of the damper and how it works. Thanks for posting.

[phonogfp]

Bruce,

Thanks for the clarification. I stand by my reservations concerning the claim that the reproducer damper was introduced "during the war," unless by that Frow meant August-December 1914. I'd be interested in learning if there's a pattern of no dampers in earlier machines. In any event, these reproducer dampers seem to appear primarily (exclusively?) in the oxidized bronze reproducers meant for the A-150. They don't show up very often - - certainly not enough to suggest production until 1919. Has anyone ever found a post-1915 Edison disc reproducer with this baffle?

Interesting topic!

George P.

[Valecnik]

Bruce,

Thanks for the clarification. I stand by my reservations concerning the claim that the reproducer damper was introduced "during the war," unless by that Frow meant August-December 1914. I'd be interested in learning if there's a pattern of no dampers in earlier machines. In any event, these reproducer dampers seem to appear primarily (exclusively?) in the oxidized bronze reproducers meant for the A-150. They don't show up very often - - certainly not enough to suggest production until 1919. Has anyone ever found a post-1915 Edison disc reproducer with this baffle?

Interesting topic!

George P.

Agree, interesting topic. Someone could easily write a three part article just on the topic of these early A series machines.

[phonogfp]

Agree, interesting topic. Someone could easily write a three part article just on the topic of these early A series machines.

Oh sure - - and suffer the slings and arrows of the Victor crowd! I think I'd better steer clear of Edison machines for awhile...!

George P.