The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

P.M. Sent.

I wish I had something to donate, but I don't. So let me just say, even without the generous donation, you are well on your way to saving an historically interesting piece. Your approach is just fine: if you can't find it, make it. And anyway, the quest is more than half the fun. I look forward to your conservation of this machine. John

That is very generous and kind of Bob. The three parts I marked in red are needed to help complete the machine.

To clarify.....in order to complete this machine 100% original will be very difficult or impossible. However, you may find some of the part as reproductions.

The Automatic sound box, horn and brake were never reproduced and may be a challenge.

Also, from want I have discovered....#16,000+ is at the very end of Type A production before it was discountinued.

I wish you the best of luck.

gramophone78 wrote:That is very generous and kind of Bob. The three parts I marked in red are needed to help complete the machine.

To clarify.....in order to complete this machine 100% original will be very difficult or impossible. However, you may find some of the part as reproductions.

The Automatic sound box, horn and brake were never reproduced and may be a challenge.

Also, from want I have discovered....#16,000+ is at the very end of Type A production before it was discountinued.

I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you for the information and the well wishes. I do appreciate it. The machine will reside in my music room and the 100% is not a show stopper for me as long as it is basically correct in materials, function and visually a 1903, or maybe 1904 Canadian Berliner Type A. Some of the history will have to be home grown. The restoration may not be 100% original in the end, but I will get it as close as I can without breaking the bank, (I will not add anything that could not be reversed if an original part comes along). I have restored a few motorcycle basket cases over the years and those were lost causes too as well. I also restored an 1892 Stewart Special Thoroughbred banjo that required me to learn to cut inlays and carve my own ivory rosette. None of them were not 100% because they had some of my own part in them, along with some NOS and some newly manufactured parts. Pistons, valve springs, cams, tires, brakes, banjo head, mother of pearl and ivory, (actually made from one of my dog's bones), all critical and all non-original, and probably an improvement. I would never have thrown out my Indian for lack of an original seat pan and fenders. It's nice if it is all original, but 100+ years later, how do we know which ones are original and which ones are marriages or have some well made replacement parts? Either way, it will play again and be prized, at least by me. I will keep records of the changes so that anyone who gets it from my estate in the end will know exactly what it is. That is a beautiful machine that you have there, and I would love to have one just like it, but I have limited funds, so I do what I can, as I can and I have to be happy with that. I do enjoy putting part of myself into a basket case and it brings me a lot of pleasure in the end. I do thank everyone who has taken the time to provide me with a good road map, and to Bob for his generous donation to this project. It arrives tomorrow and I get to see what I am in for motor wise. It's all good and thanks. This will be fun.

Here is what the 1903 Automatic sound box looks like and the four types of horns. The all nickel plated is the rarest (three known) and the most expensive at an additional $4.50 (a lot to add to a $15 machine).

gramophone78 wrote:Here is what the 1903 Automatic sound box looks like and the four types of horns. The all nickel plated is the rarest (three known) and the most expensive at an additional $4.50 (a lot to add to a $15 machine).

1903 Berliner Automatic.JPG

Berliner Trade Mark Horns.JPG

That is a beautiful group. Is it the lighting or is the reproducer that golden color? It is a lot to ask, but if you wouldn't mind, could you please take a good straight on, back view and side view of the reproducer and provide the diameter and thickness. If I have to, I will make my own reproducer.

Thanks

George,

You may want to ask around, as I have seen reproduction Berliner Automatic Reproducers on machines.
Here is a pic of one on a machine for sale at Musical Treasures of Miami.

Zwebie wrote:George,

You may want to ask around, as I have seen reproduction Berliner Automatic Reproducers on machines.
Here is a pic of one on a machine for sale at Musical Treasures of Miami.

Well, that's great news. I have never seen a repro Automatic. I wonder who is making them..??. This will make it a bit easier to help complete the machine. I know the man that used to make Berliner parts in Ontario never made the Canadian Automatic.

The one pictured looks authentic to me....mind you the pic is not that clear to make any call.
They are nickel plated (not gold) and I'm sorry, I have no way to provide you with accurate measurements.

They are a two piece body with a threaded throat (a total of three parts), held together by a three pronged spider. The man in Ontario offered a replacement spider for about $15 when he was making parts. They are usually missing a prong.
There are two variations of Automatic...1902 and 1903. Given your serial number....you will need the 1903 type.

Is it possible that some of the last Type A machines had a brass elbow? I see that Canadian Berliners that resemble Victor Royals and others had a brass elbow. I also found this old add with the Berliner tag on the right side of the machine like in the painting posted earlier.

The machine is here. It obviously needs a main spring and it needs a set of governor springs. Does anyone have a good source for these parts?

It's filthy, but all of the gears are in good shape. I also have a lead on an original reproducer and horn. Everything came apart fairly well, but I will have to make one new shaft. Things are looking up for the old derelict, and for the machine too.