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This is an interesting discussion. If the Grand Prize decal is the round one, is a mystery to me. Since your machine has the Columbia Graphophone decal, it came after 1907. The round Grand Prize Decal came out around 1901-02 and used until 1904. Then the St. Louis Exposition decal came out in 1904, and used until 1906 when the Milan decal came out. Since you machine is a BGT and a 2/4 min. one, your machine came out around 1909 or 1910. Since the decal is on the side, your machine was originally a BGT. Some BGT machines were conversions, and you can tell because the back bracket is mounted over the decal. If you machine had the earlier round decal that late is a mystery to me. Like I said in my earlier post, Columbia did not have the consistency. This could be a NOS decal that was laying around in the factory during that time. When you pay off and get your machine, keep us posted. Since you are buying this machine from Raphael, maybe he can chime in on this.
Harvey Kravitz

It has the decal on the back which was drilled through to mount the horn therefore the machine is a conversion.

Could you elaborate more on the conversions?

I think they just threw an older decal on it.

I don't understand the question. It's self explanatory what I said.
Harvey Kravitz

Did they convert different models to a BGT or did they convert BGT to 2/4 model minute machines and that required drilling through the back decal. Sorry still learning so this is not self evident to me.

The tonearm versions (with added "T" to the model letter) of the BE,BF,BG,& BK had the shield decal on the left side if they were factory produced. If those models were converted by dealer or jobber then the decal is on the rear and the back mount is covering it. Also the nickel gear cover should show the model with the letter "T", if it is a 2 minute machine.

The 2/4 minute conversion has nothing to do with the tonearm assembly or conversion to a "T" model.

If your machine has the shield decal on the back under the back bracket that's correct and maybe the side decal was a dealer tag.

Chuck

Thanks

The conversion makes sense to me now.

I suspect this is a dealer decal.

One of the things that struck me as odd was why was this decal so poorly preserved while gramophone decal was well preserved. If the poorly preserved decal was made by a dealer and was of lesser quality that would explain it.

I am going over this decal with a magnifying glass once I get this machine

This machine has a shield banner decal on the back so we can eliminate this being a shield banner. We have a mystery indeed

After zooming in as much as I could, I think I find some discrepancies between this side decal and the circular "Grand Prize" decal...

Bill

Phonofreak wrote:. Since you are buying this machine from Raphael, maybe he can chime in on this.
Harvey Kravitz

This machine is one of 500 I acquired from the Dr. Z estate collection. Sorry, but neither his records or his heirs or I know anything more about it that I could add to this conversation.

Raphael

I used a photo zoom program.

The Grand is clear enough, however the word above it appears to be CHIC "A" so clear it originally said Chicago.

This has got to be a local decal