The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Here's several threads on an Amberola III that a seller was trying to part out:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=12385
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=12373
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=12347

Django wrote:Sorry, I am fairly new around here. I had not seen this subject posted. I was just wondering what people thought and I though that it was an interesting conversation to have.

Wasn't looking to put a damper on the conversation at all, just wanted to point out that this is a longstanding subject concerning a longtime and ongoing issue/debate.

This practice of course is not limited to phonographs but affects the entire antiques field. The practice of parting out perfectly good items has been going on for a long, long time. In this regard eBay is a facilitator. No, I don't blame eBay for the actions of people who use this service, but eBay has probably made the practice of parting things out far more common than it ever was before.

I seldom buy anything on eBay because I'm rather turned off by the venue. I've seen perfectly good pocket watches parted out, including an English fusee in a gold case from the 1830s. The seller scrapped the case and sold the movement for $25. I've also seen good American shelf clocks with wooden movements taken apart and sold piece by piece. And I remember when I first got on this forum how I lamented that someone brazenly was parting out a completely original Vic I down to a serial number handwritten on the paper label that matched the metal tag. If these people have no concern for the historical integrity of what they sell, then they are in the wrong business.

One should even be careful when replacing worn out or broken parts, that you match them with the proper parts. Many of these phonographs had slight changes to their motors over time, for example. I've seen this on Columbia client machines. At first glance, the motors look identical, but on close inspection they are not. And I willing to bet that there are many Vic I's with serial numbers that are incorrect for the type of horn elbows they have. Even the tonearms on Standard Model A's were changed. you just can't swap things out. The Devil's in the details.

Anyway, I don't think there is much one can do about this. I tend to buy machines that have not been recycled through generations of collectors; many of those have been altered in some way. I have a Vic Type E that came out of a Pennsylvania farmhouse. It was dusty and dirty. The shellac is worn where you expect it to be worn, and some of the nickel plating on the horn arm is worn off from lifting the machine. Good honest wear. I like it. All I did was dust off the case and clean the motor. Not even GoJo will touch this one.

I have brought several machines that were being parted out. I remember a two clip standard that I brought in four installments but I saved it. It was the whole machine and a fairly early one. I have brought a standard F parted out. It is probably more expensive to buy a parted machine but a lot of times I could not see a rarer machine going down. I had to quit as I have now too many standards and homes. Tom B

I tend to view "parting out" rather like organ donation.

If the donor machine is "dead" (i.e., beyond any reasonable restoration), and not an extremely rare model, then it is a public service to part it out to needy restorers. But parting out an intact, restorable machine is rather like harvesting vital organs from the living.

However, if you have a very rare machine in partial condition, and another collector has the same, missing the very parts you have, is it acceptable to merge the two into one working whole?

Bill

Primum non nocere

tomb wrote:I have brought several machines that were being parted out. I remember a two clip standard that I brought in four installments but I saved it. It was the whole machine and a fairly early one. I have brought a standard F parted out. It is probably more expensive to buy a parted machine but a lot of times I could not see a rarer machine going down. I had to quit as I have now too many standards and homes. Tom B

There was a complete Standard F parted out by Neelam on eBAY some time back. Did you manage to get that one? Glad to hear you saved one.

I think we've all saved machines from the machine butchers at one time or another, but it's a delicate thing. Every time we do it, it reinforces the financial reward to part out a good machine. There are many good dealers out there who part out responsibly, but there are a few who will do it strictly for the increased money they get and have nary a twinge about it.

Parenthetically, I've documented 380 parted-out Standards since I started collecting data in 2006 (and these are just the ones with identifiable serial numbers). I love the machines and their history, so I'll probably never make any money off of them. (Frankly, I'm happier that way.) Anyway, I think George's method of not rewarding bad behavior is the best approach for controlling it.

Regards,
Martin

jboger wrote:. I've seen perfectly good pocket watches parted out, including an English fusee in a gold case from the 1830s. The seller scrapped the case and sold the movement for $25. ..

That's because the scrap value of the case was more than any "collector" wanted to pay , collectors want to buy rare items for little money , radio collectors are the worse ! that's why dealers get them and do what they do !

Torjazzer wrote:Primum non nocere

You should update this to Google , do no Evil , but even they have lost their way