I had a similar post going, but it got lost in the ether...
Additionally, keep your eyes & ears open, read and learn lots about your favorite machines ( and their current market value), and if an opportunity crosses your path, jump on it, don't "go home and think about it"...
When I started collecting over 50 years ago, people were often happy to give away machines and records in the knowledge that they were going to good homes instead of the scrapheap. Nowadays with the plethora of antiques programmes on TV, everyone thinks they are an expert and that they are sitting on a gold mine.
Rarity is not always a guide to value, as the UK portable gramophone market proves. HMV portables greatly outnumber Columbia, Decca et al on UK eBay, yet they consistently achieve the best prices. HMV Re-Entrant cabinet machines also make better money than their competitors, some of which are much rarer.
Anyone looking for bargains needs to go off the beaten track. My bargain buys include a green HMV101 for £15 from a china stall at an antiques fair, and a red leather HMV102 for £48 in a general sale with no internet access at my local auction room. In the same sale I also bought a blue 102 for £50 and a table model 130 for £28.
On the other hand, I am prepared to dig deep when I see a "must have" machine. I paid the going rate for my E.M.Ginn Expert Minor and my Edison Triumph, both of which have proved to be good investments in pleasure if not necessarily in money. That will be something for my executors to worry about.
As for records, I buy what I will enjoy listening to. It does not bother me whether a jazz record, for example, is on the original American label or the UK re-issue. It's all about the music.
I agree with Epigramophone, you have to be persistent and keep looking. I had given up ever buying an HMV 163 as they are generally £600 plus here in the UK but a few months ago I literally walked into one in a local Junk/antiques shop. It had just come in covered in dust and was taking up room in the shop - I casually asked how much it was, expecting him to have done his research and wanting £500, and was told slightly apologetically it was £50. For the price he even helped me load it into my car. I have also picked up an immaculate HMV 157 which had been in a family since new for £30 and a large brass horned Dulcephone for £120. Oh, and an Edison B80 Diamond Disc "free for collection" off Gumtree !
Anyone with a large chequebook can build a collection but for me the fun/challenge is to find the machines out there at prices which won't trigger the divorce papers ! There are still bargains out there.......
Thank you Guys! I guess I just needed a little advice.
I had a Victrola VV-XV I bought for $350.00 and sold with a record cabinet , for $150.00 A $200.00 loss. It took 4 years too sell, as not many people were interested in a Disc machine. I wander around antique malls quite a bit, and come across a lot of disc machines, that will sit for longe periods of time, because of the price. The higher the price the less likely it will sell. People want to buy a machine for the lowest price possible. Sellers need too not be so greedy. If you find a buyer who wants the machine, don't put a huge price on it. A lower priced machine on eBay, at auction will move faster then one with a higher price. People, are not going to spend $7,000.00 but, they will spend $100.00. I have seen, nice unusual machine at auction on eBay, with a low price too entice a buyer. However, the price will increase as the auction goes on. Until someone wins, and paid more, then what the machine was listed at, originally. I paid under $700.00 for my machines.
Paul,
It is all a matter of perspective. However, you loose that perspective once you begin looking over your shoulder and start comparing yourself, or your opportunities, with the next collector. The phonograph trade, similarly to other trades, is VERY competitive. If you allow yourself to get caught up in this tirade of competitiveness, you will surely get burnt out quickly. A machine that has meaning to you may get the nose up from someone else. That will never change. There is opportunity for money lost and money gained ... you simply have to stay with it long enough. I would venture to suggest that most collectors started out with big eyes and nothing in their pockets. Personally, I attended auctions for nearly four years when I started out, barely being able to afford a cup of coffee and a slice of pie. Yet, I took advantage of the free education that the auction scene provided, and I met many people along the way...some that are friends now 40 years later and some that will never be allowed in my house. If you are looking to primarily buy at antiques shops, and on eBay...you will become disgruntled quickly. Machines are often misrepresented by knowledgeable sellers, or marked up above what is a realistic price because they have to make money as well...some more than others. Greed is rampant in this trade, just as it is in all categories of collecting. Your strongest allies will be knowledge, and patience. Next in line will be identifying a select group of colleagues that you can trust and whom are willing to mentor you along. However...most importantly, as I mentioned at the top of my post, you have to maintain your own level of perspective. Over time, your vision may change somewhat. Although I will not say it with exclusivity...a 20K dollar machine brings 20K primarily due to rarity. However, a descent machine sold recently at auction for well over 4K, and yet the same model of machine in perhaps better condition was offered at less than half of that on eBay. Although the market has seen a volatile decline on "common" machines over the past 10 years, you simply never know what will show up and when it will show up, and for what price.
Whether you are in it to preserve history, or because you are a music buff, or for whatever reason imaginable...enjoy the journey.
I am well known to the staff of my local auction rooms. In conversation with them the other day I was told that, from the enquiries they receive, there are now many people who do not understand how a proper live auction works.
A generation accustomed to having everything done for them at the click of a mouse cannot imagine getting off their backsides, attending an auction and bidding in person. They are the people who are missing the bargains, which are still there for those who bother to look.
We can all relate to the experience of missing a purchase opportunity due to insufficient funds (BTW-sometimes sellers are willing to allow purchasers extra time to pay including installments). However, ultimately, high prices generally indicate high demand-which means a healthy collecting market. Those collectors who regret affordability still become sellers sooner or later--so take heart that you may be able to recover a decent part (or perhaps all/more) of your money when the time comes. In the end, a robust collecting community is in most ways preferable to a dying hobby where prices spiral downward.
When I started collecting about 30 years ago, I was in the Navy and didn't have a lot of extra cash. I bought a few machines, here and there. I had to do a layaway.I was a casual collector for about 10 years before I joined the old MAPS and OTAPS groups. I met the other collectors and drooled over these machines. The other collectors allowed me to do a layaway on the more expensive machines. Now that I am retired on a fixed pension, I still have to do layaways on some machines. Most of the other collectors allow me to do the layaway, and some that I have known for over 20 years, allow me to take the machine or item, and pay them off. It's a matter to know these people and establish a reputation. There are others who won't allow me to layaway a machine, but I won't deal with them. Most of the collectors I know don't have unlimited funds, so selling, trading, and layaway is the most common way of purchase. Also, if someone buys a machine from me, I will always allow a layaway.
Harvey Kravitz
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Thank You!