The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

hmm... this thread topic again. I guess it never gets old though, fantasizing about some of these "one day maybe" machines...

in that case, I'll take an auxetophone (for seducing visitors), one of those big hmv re-entrants (for daily play), and an edison army/navy machine (because no home is complete without an edison)... and why not, an edison opera, mahogany, with matching wood horn and herzog barrel cabinet (I guess something must be done with all those wax "tubes").

Hmmm . . . There are several phonos that I can think of that I still would like to have. But they are all REALLY scarce. But so what? I can still dream. How about a DecaDisc. Most of you don't know what this is, but it was one of the first record changers - an acoustic disc record changer. It was also a recycling changer - the entire record stack was lifted back up and replayed after the last record. Later versions of it were electrified and sold as the ElectraMuse. One of those would do nicely, too. Or an Edison C-1 radio/phono would be nice. I just acquired a Paillard Multidisc changer, so maybe I'm I'm on a roll. I'm also still actively looking for the first Perpetuum-Ebner record changer, the PW-10. If anyone has a lead on these, let me know. Here's some pictures of the DecaDisc:

what an interesting machine, that decca. I've never seen one like that before. were many made? and when they show up, what are the prices like? and I guess most importantly, how rough are they on the discs (I've heard that if adjustments aren't just right on some of these early changers, they can drop records or more or less indelicately release them, leading to cracks and breaks, etc.)?

Being newer to collecting, I would have to say I would love to have any Berliner in my collection. Or, I dream of someday owning a Class M.

(Also, any coin op would be nice!)

That all typical types of drive are represented I choose the following:

1. Tinfoil phonograph, manufactured in Menlo Park between December 1877 and February 1878. Apart from the "Kruesi" model, Edison's laboratory built nine specimens each of a small and a large phonograph.

2. Költzow-Phonograph with electric motor, manufactured by Albert Költzow, Continental-Phonograph Co., Berlin, 1890.

3. Excelsior-Phonograph with spring motor, gold-plated luxury version, manufactured by Ludwig Loewe & Co., Berlin, 1892.

In no particular order, and Edison Army and Navy or a Victrola 10-50.

Top on my wishlist is an HMV 163. My biggest problem is not the money (though I wish they were as cheap here in The Netherlands as they are in the UK), but I really wouldn't know how to get one up here. I don't have a driver's licence, nor do I know people with big cars.

Hi Brian, the DecaDisc is REALLY rare from what I can determine. The pictures I posted are from the ONLY ONE that I know exists. There must be a few other ones lurking in collections somewhere, but I haven't uncovered them yet. The acoustic ones are particularly rare as the mechanism was rather quickly converted to electrical playback and marketed as the Electramuse. But it seems that the only known examples of any of these were made as coin-ops, even though I think I've read some company literature stating that consumer models were also available. I don't have a clue what price these would bring because I've never seen any for sale. So those collectors who are impressed about how "rare" their Edison Class Ms or Idelias are, think again. You can probably find ten Class Ms for every one DecaDisc or Edison C-1.

The DecaDisc design was originally intended to work with ordinary bare records. But apparently they had some trouble with the reliability of the singulation or perhaps record edge damage, so the later versions employed metal trays that held one record each, something like the later Simplex jukebox designs.

There is a lot of fiction out there about the "hazards" of using the early record changers. I'm a changer collector, so I've got a lot of experience with a variety of models made over many years. The fact is that most of the very earliest designs were actually not that bad at record handling. The early Victors as used in the 10-50 (I call them Type I) and the later design in the 10-35 (Type II) look scary when you first watch them. But they really don't damage records if they are adjusted correctly. The third generation RCA changers (Type III, appearing about 1931) as used in the RAE-26 and other models employed a swinging magazine that held the record stack. Again, these were fairly friendly to records although they would jam if the records were warped. The "slinger" RCA changer (Type IV, ca. 1934) as used in the D-22 and other models plays the record stack from the top down. It picks the top record by the hole and slides it off the stack after play. Again, these look scary but they are pretty harmless. Victor scroll records which were contemporary to these changers were made of pretty tuff stuff and they survived these changers quite well. Later records are more brittle and are more likely to break.

The early Capehart 16-E flipover changer was generally pretty safe, but it could crunch records that had rough edges and didn't get singulated properly by the single knife works in the magazine. The later 41-E employed double knives in the magazine and do a better job with fewer problems. The 41-E is actually quite reliable and many users are very happy with them.

The worst offenders are the "slicer" and "finger flinger" styles that appeared in the mid 1930s. Several makers (RCA, Seeburg, Oak, and others) had models that employed one or more knives that sliced into the record stack to singulate the bottom record from the upper part of the stack. These changers often caused damage to records that had rough edges. Most of these designs are pretty hinky and you want to use them only with records with nice, smooth, rounded edges such as Victors. The "finger flingers" are the most frightening changers. They employ a finger with a knife edge that attempts to slice the top record off the stack and then flings it into the spent record compartment. General Industries and several others made these cheap changers in the mid 1930s. These are pretty klunky, and I won't play them regularly except to demonstrate them and then only with a stack of junk records.

So, yes, there are some changer designs from the mid 1930s that are not record friendly, but there are plenty of other designs, both earlier and later, that work just fine. Most of the jukebox designs are really quite good at record handling.

after seeing this machine (early deca with changer mechanism) today on ebay (not cheap), I remembered that there was some discussion of this model on the board at one point... actually, the machine discussed appears to be the same one presently listed for sale...

http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-DECA-DISC-JUKE ... ltDomain_0

I had to do a top 3 as well, but no. 1 is my dream machine of all time.

1. VV XVIII in Circassian Walnut

2. Edison Model A 250

3. Berliner Gramophone and a big box of Berliner records to go with it.
(I have to joke about it to cope with the agony!)