The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

VV XI wrote:

Wolfe wrote:Sometimes it's that way.
There were so many records produced in the 78 era (60 years or so) on so many labels that it doeesn't surprise me at all that some are absent any mention.

I can't believe how many labels they had back in the day. I think I have as many label dividers for my records as I have records. LOL

I don't know if you know the Ted Staunton site. It's fun to gaze at and occasionally useful to get some kind of background on obscure labels.

http://www.tedstaunton.com

Wolfe wrote:

gramophone-georg wrote:

Wolfe wrote:The Stinson might have been issued on Asch.

Or Disc or Folkways. All 4 labels were associated at one point. Sometimes, but not always, the matrix number will shed more light on what's going on.

On not sure that any actual 78's were issued with the Folkways label ? Yes, Disc is also related, Disc 78's are somewhat common.

I've had several Folkways 78 sets from a university library collection I bought out. They did exist but I'm not sure how widely they were distributed.

^ OK !

Wolfe wrote:

VV XI wrote:

Wolfe wrote:Sometimes it's that way.
There were so many records produced in the 78 era (60 years or so) on so many labels that it doeesn't surprise me at all that some are absent any mention.

I can't believe how many labels they had back in the day. I think I have as many label dividers for my records as I have records. LOL

I don't know if you know the Ted Staunton site. It's fun to gaze at and occasionally useful to get some kind of background on obscure labels.

http://www.tedstaunton.com

That's a cool site- thanks! And look what I found there:

http://www.tedstaunton.com/labels/1940_ ... surma.html

History: Label scan courtesy of UK collector and musicologist Bill Dean-Myatt. Thanks to collector Andrew John Ohar of the U.S.A. for the following updated info: "Surma was a boutique label created almost exclusively for Ukrainian folk music, founded by a Mr. Surmach (I believe his first name was Myron, but I'm not sure), the proprietor of Surma Book & Music Company, Inc. of the East Village in NYC (still in existence today at http://www.surmastore.com). A few blocks away from Surma is (or was? ­ I haven't been in the neighborhood for several years) another such establishment named Arka, and they too had a boutique label for Ukrainian folk music purposes."


So there you have it... but I wonder which company pressed them? Stinson?

gramophone-georg wrote:Are we talking about Russian/ Ukranian/ Eastern European records recorded there but pressed in USA? I've seen the Surma label and I think that label was used for private pressings for a "boutique" music supplier.

Yes, my record is on the Stinson label, but when I look them up online I only find them on the Surma label. Same thing with Herald and Varsity. I have Herald but can only find info on the Varsity label.

It is just so strange the way things were done back then.

VV XI wrote:

gramophone-georg wrote:Are we talking about Russian/ Ukranian/ Eastern European records recorded there but pressed in USA? I've seen the Surma label and I think that label was used for private pressings for a "boutique" music supplier.

Yes, my record is on the Stinson label, but when I look them up online I only find them on the Surma label. Same thing with Herald and Varsity. I have Herald but can only find info on the Varsity label.

It is just so strange the way things were done back then.

Wow, you went down an even deeper rabbit hole than I was expecting tavarisch.

Little labels popped up like pimples on a teenager's face in the mid to late '40s, and, from 1942-46, a lot of little companies teamed up (like Disc, Folkways, Asch, Stinson) because of wartime shellac shortages.

Makes the 1920s and 30s a cakewalk by comparison, actually.

You may be connecting dots that nobody has before.

gramophone-georg wrote: You may be connecting dots that nobody has before.

That's great. I may be connecting dots......but I have no idea what the picture is supposed to be!! LOL

They may be research projects for another day. I still have boxes of records and 40 plus albums to get cataloged and put away.

I looked again at the Russian records site and found what I was looking for. Followed a link showing this recording was first used on Soviet records > Gramplasttrest. Then at some point in time a reissue on three labels, American > Surma, American > Stinson Records and lastly American > Ukrainian Records.

Thanks for the help. I missed that the first time I was on that site.

Our beloved 78s are very cheap and very breakable. It is simply amazing how millions of them survived throughout the years at all. With that being said, how many didn’t make it? Think of all the rare 78s that did not survive. I’m sure there are tracks that will never be heard, ever again that we don’t know they even existed. Crazy. I guess we are not missing out? It’s similar to the, “If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it….” Dilemma.

-Travis

For any obscure British labels you may have, https://early78s.uk is a mine of information.

Before 1914, dozens of small companies were importing cheap German pressings which they labelled with patriotic sounding British names. When war broke out their supplies came to an abrupt end, and most of them went out of business. The big companies which pressed their records in Britain survived.

It is not unusual in the UK to find labels with wording such as "Pressed in Prussia" scratched out by angry patriots.