The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

phonogfp wrote:

AmberolaAndy wrote:Ok another goofy question. I now have both model h reproducers and I noticed on one or them the part where the stylus screws into has this “swivel” while the other one doesn’t. What’s that about?

Not a goofy question at all. The difference is simply early vs. later production. A series of articles on every major type of Edison cylinder reproducer was written by Steve Medved and published in The Antique Phonograph. One of these articles was on the Model H and as I recall, the H has more known variations than any other model.

George P.

Does that mean that changed the Model H when they started using horizontal carriages?

I believe the changes began occurring before the use of horizontal carriages.

George P.

If AmberolaAndy would like to get the benefit of the larger diaphragm without the cost of replacing the carrier-arm (or the entire machine), it may be worth while looking out for a Model R reproducer; this has the greater diaphragm size but also incorporates an extension to the back of the body which enables it to drop straight into the small reproducer-ring of (for example) a Standard A or B. Rs are not as scarce as I once thought; I now own two and formerly had a third. They suffer from degradation of the pot-metal body, but I understand that this is equally true of the O. The weight is exactly the same as that of the H apart from the extended arms for the hinge-block, and consequently the stylus is also identical. The R will even accept a 2-minute stylus if desired. I use mine for everything except brown-wax records.

Oliver Mundy.

Menophanes wrote:If AmberolaAndy would like to get the benefit of the larger diaphragm without the cost of replacing the carrier-arm (or the entire machine), it may be worth while looking out for a Model R reproducer; this has the greater diaphragm size but also incorporates an extension to the back of the body which enables it to drop straight into the small reproducer-ring of (for example) a Standard A or B. Rs are not as scarce as I once thought; I now own two and formerly had a third. They suffer from degradation of the pot-metal body, but I understand that this is equally true of the O. The weight is exactly the same as that of the H apart from the extended arms for the hinge-block, and consequently the stylus is also identical. The R will even accept a 2-minute stylus if desired. I use mine for everything except brown-wax records.

Oliver Mundy.

How much louder will the Model R play 4 minute records than a Model H? I noticed my Model H reproducers don’t play as loud as a Model C playing 2 minute records. Is it because the grooves are closer? Like when you play a song on a K-tel record compared to the version on the regular album.

AmberolaAndy wrote:

Menophanes wrote:If AmberolaAndy would like to get the benefit of the larger diaphragm without the cost of replacing the carrier-arm (or the entire machine), it may be worth while looking out for a Model R reproducer; this has the greater diaphragm size but also incorporates an extension to the back of the body which enables it to drop straight into the small reproducer-ring of (for example) a Standard A or B. Rs are not as scarce as I once thought; I now own two and formerly had a third. They suffer from degradation of the pot-metal body, but I understand that this is equally true of the O. The weight is exactly the same as that of the H apart from the extended arms for the hinge-block, and consequently the stylus is also identical. The R will even accept a 2-minute stylus if desired. I use mine for everything except brown-wax records.

Oliver Mundy.

How much louder will the Model R play 4 minute records than a Model H? I noticed my Model H reproducers don’t play as loud as a Model C playing 2 minute records. Is it because the grooves are closer? Like when you play a song on a K-tel record compared to the version on the regular album.

It is a bit louder, and there is more bass with an O, N or R than an H.
You could also 'hot rod' a model C by installing the weight/stylus assembly onto a model R body, and play 2 minute records with more depth, bass, like using the 2 min setting on an O.

I use H, O, N and R sapphire reproducers almost exclusively for playing Blue Amberol records. I rarely use my Amberola 30, or Diamond B reproducer for playing BA's. The simple reason for this is there is simply no reason to subject the records to the heavy weight of the diamond reproducer when the sapphire reproducers, especially the large diaphragm models do a great job playing the record with greatly reduced risk of record wear.

Wes K wrote:

AmberolaAndy wrote:

Menophanes wrote:If AmberolaAndy would like to get the benefit of the larger diaphragm without the cost of replacing the carrier-arm (or the entire machine), it may be worth while looking out for a Model R reproducer; this has the greater diaphragm size but also incorporates an extension to the back of the body which enables it to drop straight into the small reproducer-ring of (for example) a Standard A or B. Rs are not as scarce as I once thought; I now own two and formerly had a third. They suffer from degradation of the pot-metal body, but I understand that this is equally true of the O. The weight is exactly the same as that of the H apart from the extended arms for the hinge-block, and consequently the stylus is also identical. The R will even accept a 2-minute stylus if desired. I use mine for everything except brown-wax records.

Oliver Mundy.

How much louder will the Model R play 4 minute records than a Model H? I noticed my Model H reproducers don’t play as loud as a Model C playing 2 minute records. Is it because the grooves are closer? Like when you play a song on a K-tel record compared to the version on the regular album.

It is a bit louder, and there is more bass with an O, N or R than an H.
You could also 'hot rod' a model C by installing the weight/stylus assembly onto a model R body, and play 2 minute records with more depth, bass, like using the 2 min setting on an O.

I use H, O, N and R sapphire reproducers almost exclusively for playing Blue Amberol records. I rarely use my Amberola 30, or Diamond B reproducer for playing BA's. The simple reason for this is there is simply no reason to subject the records to the heavy weight of the diamond reproducer when the sapphire reproducers, especially the large diaphragm models do a great job playing the record with greatly reduced risk of record wear.

Ok. I bought another machine from eBay I’m planning to restore that will do a better job playing 4 minute records than my Home B attachment. It’s an open horn machine specifically made to play 4 Minute cylinders. An Edison Standard E. Since I already restored a VV-8-4 and a Columbia Q from eBay, I might as well start 2019 with another project to keep me busy during the Boring months of January and February. BTW how does an Edison Standard E sound when playing BAs compared to an amberola 30?

As far as sound goes, I think an Amberola 30 is slightly better than playing records with an H and a 14" witch hat horn.
A noticeable step above an Amberola 30 would be a Firside A using the 19" Fireside horn.
I have never noticed a difference in volume between a Model C and an H, except when the stylus on the H was worn. If the reproducer is rebuilt, but the diaphragm ring was tightened too much, it might dampen it down, and make it not as loud. But that comparison is mostly based on playing 2-minute Indestructible's on the C vs BA's on the H.
That E Standard will be a great 4-minute player with a large diaphragm reproducer and a cygnet horn setup.

Wes K wrote:As far as sound goes, I think an Amberola 30 is slightly better than playing records with an H and a 14" witch hat horn.
A noticeable step above an Amberola 30 would be a Firside A using the 19" Fireside horn.
I have never noticed a difference in volume between a Model C and an H, except when the stylus on the H was worn. If the reproducer is rebuilt, but the diaphragm ring was tightened too much, it might dampen it down, and make it not as loud. But that comparison is mostly based on playing 2-minute Indestructible's on the C vs BA's on the H.
That E Standard will be a great 4-minute player with a large diaphragm reproducer and a cygnet horn setup.

I messed with the ring in my Model H and I still can’t get it to sound as loud as my model c’s... The only time the audio in my Model H compared to a Model C is when I play an earlier non dubbed BA or 2 minute indestructibles. But on other things, WAs, later BAs, and 4 min Industructables the volume is lower than a Model C. So I said “to heck with it!” And bought my next project.

Ok, here’s some pics from the eBay listing. Can anyone tell what reproducer is in there?

AmberolaAndy wrote:

Wes K wrote:As far as sound goes, I think an Amberola 30 is slightly better than playing records with an H and a 14" witch hat horn.
A noticeable step above an Amberola 30 would be a Firside A using the 19" Fireside horn.
I have never noticed a difference in volume between a Model C and an H, except when the stylus on the H was worn. If the reproducer is rebuilt, but the diaphragm ring was tightened too much, it might dampen it down, and make it not as loud. But that comparison is mostly based on playing 2-minute Indestructible's on the C vs BA's on the H.
That E Standard will be a great 4-minute player with a large diaphragm reproducer and a cygnet horn setup.

Huh. I guess I put the ring in too tight on my model H...

Ok, here’s some pics from the eBay listing. Can anyone tell what reproducer is in there?

Looks like a model N, and a later one at that. The early N's have modified H tail weights.

Wes K wrote:

AmberolaAndy wrote:

Wes K wrote:As far as sound goes, I think an Amberola 30 is slightly better than playing records with an H and a 14" witch hat horn.
A noticeable step above an Amberola 30 would be a Firside A using the 19" Fireside horn.
I have never noticed a difference in volume between a Model C and an H, except when the stylus on the H was worn. If the reproducer is rebuilt, but the diaphragm ring was tightened too much, it might dampen it down, and make it not as loud. But that comparison is mostly based on playing 2-minute Indestructible's on the C vs BA's on the H.
That E Standard will be a great 4-minute player with a large diaphragm reproducer and a cygnet horn setup.

Huh. I guess I put the ring in too tight on my model H...

Ok, here’s some pics from the eBay listing. Can anyone tell what reproducer is in there?

Looks like a model N, and a later one at that. The early N's have modified H tail weights.

I’m hoping it at least it has the screw holes in the back for a cygnet horn. (No photo) That would be pretty sweet. And yeah, I’m probably gonna fuss with that infamous mandrel bearing. That’s if no funny business happens during shipping and I have a even bigger project!