Victor 3 serial number 883

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Django
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by Django »

The Nickel tends to be very thin, so a good, gentle cleaning without abrasives is safest. To me, an antique should display its age, or at least not look new. These are not defects as much as they are a record of existence and proof of usage. I like a machine with a little character.

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jsimmons0331
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by jsimmons0331 »

I agree. I would have only overhauled the motor and reproducer if the cabinet had not suffered a "poor" quality refinish years before my time. So I opted to do a complete strip/stain/refinish on the cabinet and re-plate the bullet brake and speed control, and replace the crank and crank escutcheon as they were both badly worn. I can tell that this phonograph was heavily used, but overall well cared for. I feel lucky to own it. Can't wait to post a few pics once it's back together.

Remmotors
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by Remmotors »

Dave and JIm,
It is my understanding that Victor started their serial numbers for each model at 500. That would make your Victor 3 the 383rd one built; indeed very early.
Roy

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jsimmons0331
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by jsimmons0331 »

Roy -
That's very interesting information. My understanding is that the Victor 3 (III) was first produced in 1902. And the paper license sticker on the bottom (which has "883" penciled on it) has a date in the lower corner of March 1, 1902. So I'm thinking that this is a 1902 phonograph.

I did find this on the victrola.com web site, which also mentions that the Victrola serial numbers started with number 501:
The Serial Number
It’s highly likely that the serialization of external horn Victors started from s/n 100. It was rather difficult to identify the exact dating of these very early models of external horn machines since a reset in the serial numbers was performed in 1905. Then, another reset was also done in 1909. In other words, there can be at least 2 or even more serial numbers that are identical for a given model. Furthermore, the earliest machines have incomplete factory records. When this is the case, dating a phonograph accurately can be possible with some educated guessing.
Thanks,
Jim
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Dave D
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by Dave D »

Remmotors wrote:Dave and JIm,
It is my understanding that Victor started their serial numbers for each model at 500. That would make your Victor 3 the 383rd one built; indeed very early.
Roy
I am not so sure about that. My early Victor D is serial number 302.
Dave

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jsimmons0331
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by jsimmons0331 »

Dave D wrote:
Remmotors wrote:Dave and JIm,
It is my understanding that Victor started their serial numbers for each model at 500. That would make your Victor 3 the 383rd one built; indeed very early.
Roy
I am not so sure about that. My early Victor D is serial number 302.
Dave
That would substantiate the earlier statement that External Horn Victors started with serial number 100.
Jim

Jerry B.
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by Jerry B. »

From the Victor Victrola page...
The License Sticker date will also likely not reflect the accurate production date of your Victor or Victrola machine.
I think 1902 is too early when you consider about 50,000 Victor Monarchs in front mount, rigid arm, and rear mount variations were made prior to any Victor 3 (III). I'm away from home and don't have access to my Victor Data book. What is the start date for the Victor III? Don't forget that information such as dates and yearly sales for the Victor III were a combination of Victor Monarch and Victor III data.

When was the Victor Monarch (M) introduced?
When was the rigid arm M sold?
When was the taper arm M sold?
When was the Victor 3 introduced? #883 was shortly after this date. 1902 just seems too early but I'd be happy to be wrong. :) It's a great machine and I'd be proud to own it.

Jerry Blais

Jerry B.
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by Jerry B. »

Also from the Victor-Victrola Page:
1904

Victor introduces the deluxe gold-trimmed Victor VI model, selling for $100 ($1900 in today's money)

Tapering tone arm debuts on certain models
But it also mentions in the 1902 timeline the introduction of the Monarch Special and the Victor III as well as the rigid arm. My best educated guess is that Victor sold the Monarch Special (MS on the ID tag). To give this machine an exclusive sounding title the Victor Advertising Department called it the "Victor the Third." Victor later manufactured (1904?) an actual machine tagged as a Victor 3 which over a brief time became the III.

Jerry B.

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jsimmons0331
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by jsimmons0331 »

JerryB...

Indeed. I don't really care when it was made but figured the combination of low serial number and all the characteristics of the early Vic III's seem to apply and would at least qualify mine as an "Early" model. I guess that will put it somewhere in the 1902 - 1905 range. I understand accurate records of these early external horn models is lacking, so I'm just trying to get it in the ballpark. Looking for the Dog says the III began production in 1902 and I assumed the low 3-digit serial number would put it closer to the earliest days of the III (3). I'd be happy to assume mine as a 1904-ish model.

Thanks for all the feedback.
Jim S.

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jsimmons0331
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Re: Victor 3 serial number 883

Post by jsimmons0331 »

I think I'm going to date my Victor "3" as most likely a late 1903 or early 1904 example, even though the serial number is low. Mine has a tapered tone arm which puts it after 1903, and the Exhibition reproducer (which I have) was first introduced in late 1903/early 1904. My Exhibition looks to be a very early model as it has the round needle hole in the needle arm, and the spring locking nuts on the reproducer are round and knurled, not hex nuts. I'm pretty certain that everything on my Vic 3 is original except perhaps the Horn.

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