The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

estott wrote: I wouldn't say "Never". My Beka has their "Union" motor with a cast iron turntable that looks quite original to me- and that turntable has a pressed on metal rim which originally covered the turntable edge. Beka literature refers to a turntable with "Patent rim". : http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... hilit=beka

This may be the exception to the rule, but a closer look at the turntable will tell, if the platter is stamped or cast. The turntable in second pic on the other hand is clearly, obviously a portable one.

Teak wrote:Both gramophones imaged in this thread are frankenphones. How can you look out the red horn or the cheap portable turntable and speedcontrol on the pic Soundgen posted and even remotely think it is original.

edit: Do not buy this! If you don't believe me, let them show you the turntable, motor etc. It will be a cheap, new style motor with cheap turntable from a portable.Horn gramophones never had the outer edge curved over on the platter.

This is a wholly misleading generalisation. I have seen Beltona horn machines with bevelled edge turntables and later horn models other than those by HMV which have the same.

Let's be honest who in their right mind would knock together a crapophone or frankenphone and then stick, of all things, an ALBA transfer on it?

Would love to see that beltona platter. The Beltona open horns I know all have cast platters.
The ring around indicates a stamped platter (exception above). It is of course important to dig deeper, but 99% of all horn gramophones with a platter like this are fakes.
I stand fully by this statement. I am sure if you look further at the motor, all doubt is gone anyway.

As for why, because someone cobbled something together and had this transfer laying around to sell it for 500 dollars.

Teak wrote:Would love to see that beltona platter. The Beltona open horns I know all have cast platters.
The ring around indicates a stamped platter (exception above). It is of course important to dig deeper, but 99% of all horn gramophones with a platter like this are fakes.
I stand fully by this statement. I am sure if you look further at the motor, all doubt is gone anyway.

As for why, because someone cobbled something together and had this transfer laying around to sell it for 500 dollars.

500 dollars for an ALBA, hey? A lot of people in this forum appear to query paying little more than that for genuine Victor / HMV or DG machines. It seems unlikely proposition to me.

Steve wrote:

Teak wrote:Would love to see that beltona platter. The Beltona open horns I know all have cast platters.
The ring around indicates a stamped platter (exception above). It is of course important to dig deeper, but 99% of all horn gramophones with a platter like this are fakes.
I stand fully by this statement. I am sure if you look further at the motor, all doubt is gone anyway.

As for why, because someone cobbled something together and had this transfer laying around to sell it for 500 dollars.

500 dollars for an ALBA, hey? A lot of people in this forum appear to query paying little more than that for genuine Victor / HMV or DG machines. It seems unlikely proposition to me.

What collector would want it anyway especially in the US , they don't like non US machines do they ? and that red horn

The US has a plentiful supply of native product to not have to worry about foreign makes. One look at Union will show you this. It's enough to make your eyes pop out. UK and Europe got far less number but arguably as much, if not more variety.

We got the best sound from acoustic machines by far (from HMV 202/3 through EMG / Expert 10a/b or Senior) while the French and Spanish markets got the most elegant and stunning machines from an aesthetic point of view, including some Spanish HMVs.

Teak wrote:Both gramophones imaged in this thread are frankenphones. How can you look out the red horn or the cheap portable turntable and speedcontrol on the pic Soundgen posted and even remotely think it is original.

edit: Do not buy this! If you don't believe me, let them show you the turntable, motor etc. It will be a cheap, new style motor with cheap turntable from a portable.Horn gramophones never had the outer edge curved over on the platter.

Here is my 1929 Columbia 2a, the last open horn model the company ever made. Take a good look at the turntable.
I sold the machine with regret to a beginner who had been bitten by a crapophone, because if your first machine is a bad one it could put you off the hobby for life.

Yes, your Columbia is a good example of what I'm talking about. Shame you sold it!

It was in horrid condition, cheap little motor, spray painted horn and platter, truly crappy elbow with a rough finish like it was made in a sand mold.
I saved $300.00 today.