Thoughts on shaving moldy brown wax cylinders

[edisonphonoworks]

I will try to be nice as I can. When you shave something unknown it could be the Mark Twain or Bolden, or an 1890 Edison voice recording (one was found in upstate New York about 2001, and I am sure none of you are aware of it, as it is the only early Edison voice cylinder in private hands, it was moldy, but it was good enough to decipher it was Mr. Edison, and the voice matches that of the 1888 Edison recording. Edison talks about how the people at North American are not doing things the way he wanted to commence with recording, and that he made a diaphragm so sensitive you need not speak above a whisper. I have two shaved North American cylinders, one blank, probably shaved a century ago, and another has a home recording on it, recorded about 1915 with the "Doughnut Song" two examples of lost North American recordings, that is very sad! A phonograph enthusiast sent me a box of original brown wax bits, to experiment with. Upon carefully examining the pieces, I took the time to sort all of them out to the cylinders each bit belonged too. I can tell what company (Early or late Edison or a Columbia blank)by physical blank characteristics not even having to play it.) One of the cylinders was also a North American channeled rim. I carefully checked that I had all the pieces of the North American record and then it also looked like the recording on it might be original, as the grooves were very shallow, indicating a recording by a standard speaker style Edison recorder, and gave it to the cylinder doctor, so maybe sometime we may be able to hear it again. I do believe technology will be soon (I predicted how Phonautograms could be scanned and turned into a sound file on my New North American website in 2000, on the history page many years before First Sounds did it.) coming that it will be able to listen through the noise and do a comparative analysis of what audio is present, and compare it with a bank of sheet music, and also compare frequency data, amplitude etc. to re-construct lost recordings. In my own experiments, I noticed sometimes (on my self made blanks) that if I shave a recording off, it looks like nothing is present, however when played on the phonograph you can still hear the recording even when no grooves are present and some of the hills and valleys exist, even though they can't be seen with the naked eye. I was able to clean brown wax where the white on it was thick and slippery! I used labtone and distilled water, and was able to hear recordings and discern what was on it, when before cleaning it sounded like nothing at all was present, and not one note could be heard. Just my thoughts and observations.

[Chuck]

We have discussed this familiar topic of "To shave,
or Not To Shave" seemingly endlessly over the years.

There are opposing points of view, and both are valid.

While it is true that if great care and judgment is
not used, there is always the chance of some recording
of great historical value being destroyed.

It can also be said that if there's a batch of hopelessly
moldy cylinders which quite obviously have no retrievable
sound on them, then they (theoretically at least) can
be shaved down and used again to make new recordings.

As far as the $50 price tag for brand new brown wax
cylinders, I can think of no other comment I can
make in regard to this other than the old, well-worn
adage that: "You get what you pay for".

To put it another way, if you are in the market for
an automobile, you can choose from many different
models and styles. Some prefer less expensive models.
Some others want better quality.

Another example would be cylinder machines.
Not everyone can afford an Edison class M, or
an Amberola 1A. That is exactly why such things
as the Amberola 30 exist.

Mass produced, or "one off" under strictly controlled
conditions with documentation. The choice is yours.

Chuck Richards
Richards Laboratories
http://www.richardslaboratories.com

[rgordon939]

Then again Chuck as a pursuit collector one might rather have an original rather than a newly manufactured replica. Sort of like a real Shelby sports car and a Shelby kit car. They may look the same but there not original.

Rich Gordon

[Chuck]

Fair enough Rich!

Speaking of originals, I own exactly (2) genuine
Edison brown wax recording blanks. One of them
has a live band recording on it that I made at
a practice session in a guy's basement back in the
early 1980s.

It was a civil war reenactment band and they
were playing period instruments. I had them all perched
in various positions on a step ladder all very close
to the horn. It was a hot summer evening, these guys
were tired, there was no air conditioning. We did
a few takes on dictaphone blanks to test to see how
it was sounding.

Once we had it down, I recorded them on an Edison
original blank. Those guys obviously did not like
playing in the awkward positions on the ladder.

Nerves were getting frayed.

But that all suddenly vanished the instant I played
the recording back. We all realized in that instant
what we had just done. Rich, you are very much right
that there is simply nothing like an original.

I still have that recording and cherish it, and only
play it once in a great while.

When I started making blanks, I was only doing it
so I could have an endless supply of them.

Ended up taking a few of my very earliest experiments
to Union back in 2009, and the folks there wanted
to buy them. I told them these are just experiments,
they are not very good yet, but these guys seemed to
think they were just fine.

Since that time I've made just over 400 of them
and have sold around 350. Occasionally, one comes
along that is way, way too good to sell. Those are
the ones I keep.

[rgordon939]

I have some early recordings myself. I really like listening to the way people spoke back then . So different from today. Usually much more formal.

Rich Gordon

[Chuck]

Hi Rich,

Here's a question for you that I've been wondering about:

When you shave moldy brown wax cylinders, do you find that
it takes a few more shaves to get down to good quiet
wax after the mold and old grooves are gone?

I kind of wonder how deep the noisy, oxidized stuff
goes before you hit good stuff.

Thanks, Chuck

[rgordon939]

Well that varies from cylinder to cylinder. I had ones found in a barn exposed to all of the weather elements that took several passes to get to a good clear surface. I’ve had others that were completely covered in mold that showed a good clear surface after two or three passes. I believe cylinders that developed mold while in their containers take less shaving from those kept loose. Hope this info helps.

Rich Gordon

[Chuck]

Thanks Rich! I suppose it makes sense when
you consider that cylinders kept in their boxes
would tend to be exposed to a little less oxygen
than ones stored out in the open.

Chuck

[phonogal]

I have 6 brown wax cylinders that I think have home recordings on them. I have played them on an early Standard with an automatic reproducer. The sound is very low. How would I go about actually listening to them? Ear tubes?

[travisgreyfox]

Also I wanted to add: What if future technology lets us reverse the "mold" on these records? It would be a shame to record over or chuck them if someday we can repair and play what's on them.

Seen this in the news today and made me think about this thread. High-energy X-rays + machine learning may allow ancient scrolls on Epicureanism, crushed in the Vesuvius eruption, to be read 1,940 years later.

http://www.msn.com/en-xl/europe/europe- ... ar-AAIcYjY