The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

ymg200 wrote:

phonogfp wrote:

ymg200 wrote:I am new to mechanical music machines and doing the research before buying a gramophone.
What are pros and cons of a single spring vs double spring motor? I've read that there has been also a triple spring....

Yes, Edison marketed a couple of Phonographs in the 1896-1911 period which were equipped with a triple-mainspring motor known as the "Triton." Columbia marketed several machines (cylinder and disc) with 4-mainspring motors, and many of the larger post-1917 Victrolas are equipped with 4-mainspring motors.

ymg200 wrote:How does the number of springs affect on:
Length of play?

Typically, the more mainsprings in a motor, the longer it will play on a single winding. Columbia marketed a very popular Graphophone from 1897-1907 (The Type B, or "Eagle) with two mainsprings, but they were so small that some machines with a single, larger mainspring could play longer on a single winding.

ymg200 wrote:Reliability?

Having multiple mainsprings means that each mainspring is sharing the work with the other mainspring(s), but the disadvantage of this is that if one mainspring breaks, the motor will not function.

ymg200 wrote:Collectors value?

Multiple-mainspring motors are usually found in upper-end machines, so the collector value may be higher, but not so much because of the mainsprings. Many earlier machines with single mainsprings are worth far more than nicely-playing multi-mainspring Victrolas of 20 years later. Don't buy a machine based on the number of mainsprings. Also, decide if you want a machine to use as a daily player, or a rare specimen. Many of us have scarce talking machines worth many thousands of dollars that don't play well - - and never did. Meanwhile, a common Victrola worth perhaps $150-$200 will play nicely and provide utility that the "shelf queens" cannot.

ymg200 wrote:Length of life?

Mainsprings can and do break. Metal fatigue affects these parts over time. Luckily, new mainsprings are readily available at reasonable prices, and the parts suppliers will even install them in your spring barrels if you wish.

ymg200 wrote:Any other aspects that I should know of?

I wouldn't recommend a prospective collector to go out and buy a rare machine. First, decide what you like: musically and visually; and set a budget for your first purchase.

For cylinder machines, start with a common model such as an Edison Standard Model D (it plays both 2-minute and 4-minute cylinder records with the proper reproducers). If you don't care about the external horn of the Standard, and prefer fox-trots to earlier popular music, get an Edison Amberola 30.

For disc machines, common models are the Victrolas VI, IX, XI, XIV, and XVI (I left out the IV because it has a smallish single mainspring and you'll spend a lot of time winding it if you enjoy playing records). These are in ascending order of original price and features. They all play 78 rpm records, which are in plentiful supply and are often given away free by collectors.

These are just my suggestions, and others will have their own perspectives. In short, start simple and buy only what you like. Don't be in a hurry, and hopefully get some exposure to some different machines before taking the plunge.

Good luck!

George P.

Thank you George for good points. I do know exactly what I want, although I'm not set on a particular model. I want a Victrola because they were made in NJ and I live in NJ. Also Victrolas are popular, so I shouldn't have problems with parts in case if I need any. I'd want external horn for the classic look, but from what I can see the price jumps considerably for external horn (I assume that's not only because of aesthetics, but because those were earlier models), so I'll likely have to settle for an internal horn. I'd want a tabletop model because the cabinet only distracts attention from the machine (that's my personal perception). I'd go for an earlier model, but I want it to have a good sound quality... I have to stop here because I haven't heard any machines in person so far. I'd want to see and hear few machines before I can make an educated decision.

Victrola-Monkey wrote:Ymg200,

I too am into Victor Talking Machine Company machines because of a NJ connection, I was born in Camden. That is something I never admitted too until I opened and looked at the inside lid of a Victrola. If you have the chance, you should take a trip down to the Johnson (he was the founder of VTMC) museum in Delaware. They have all the variety of machines there. They have a Old time Victrola store inside their museum and they are happy to play a few machines for you.

marcapra wrote:Also, if you prefer records made from 1925 and after, in other words, electrically recorded 78s, you should hear a Victrola Orthophonic machine made to play the records from the late 20s and early 30s. There were other makes that made competing models that played electrically recorded records, such as Columbia Viva Tonal, and Brunswick Panatrope machines. You can play electric records on pre-1925 machines, but they will lack the fidelity of the later models and be harder on your records.

marcapra wrote:Yes, I have heard some of those Victor open horn machines and they can sound awesome! But I still think an Orthophonic machine would be easier on your records because it has more geometrically accurate tracking of the groove.