The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Lucius1958 wrote:

davidjensen wrote:I would try playing a proper Edison Diamond Disc with the reproducer that is on there already since it may be fine. (ignore the extra one for now as noted by others since it may not be in working order). You can not play 78s with the current set up without an adapter

Better test the stylus on the dead wax first: if it leaves any marks, it should be replaced.

- Bill

Bill is the “dead wax” the edge of the record?

Redjeep18 wrote:Wow... so much information to take in. I can’t thank you enough! I’m going to pick it up (5 hour drive) this weekend. I will be in touch with everyone! I will also send more pics. And probably be reaching out!

Question in the meantime.... do the diamond discs only have one song each?

There are two songs. One on each side of the record.

Redjeep18 wrote:

Lucius1958 wrote:

davidjensen wrote:I would try playing a proper Edison Diamond Disc with the reproducer that is on there already since it may be fine. (ignore the extra one for now as noted by others since it may not be in working order). You can not play 78s with the current set up without an adapter

Better test the stylus on the dead wax first: if it leaves any marks, it should be replaced.

- Bill

Bill is the “dead wax” the edge of the record?

It is the ungrooved area at the end of a recording, adjacent to the label. If the stylus leaves a scratch you should be able to visibly notice the mark.

Have fun!

Best,
Fran

Redjeep18 wrote:Wow... so much information to take in. I can’t thank you enough! I’m going to pick it up (5 hour drive) this weekend. I will be in touch with everyone! I will also send more pics. And probably be reaching out!

Question in the meantime.... do the diamond discs only have one song each?

Most are double-sided, but one song on each side

What are recreation records?

"Re-Creation" was the Edison co's marketing name for their records.

Best,
Fran

fran604g wrote:"Re-Creation" was the Edison co's marketing name for their records.

Best,
Fran

Fran,
Why do some records have it on the albums and others don’t? Does this date the albums?

Also, I see after the number of the record there is a -L or -R, what does this mean?

Lastly, paper labels vs. etched labels? Did they change the labeling process or something?

Unfortunately the topic of accurately dating Edison records by label is complex.

There were many changes to the labeling over the years.

Consulting and simplifying a very small part of the great info in Collector's Guide To Edison Records by George A. Copeland and Michael W. Sherman, I'll try to explain.

Generally:

The earliest records had an all "frosted" black label, with glossy lettering, and the title numbers in white on the record's edge in 4 places. Late 1912 - late 1914.

Then came a glossy black label with frosted shields and lettering. Still had the catalog number on the edge, as the co. slowly moved toward listing artists names and the catalog number on the label. Late 1914 - early 1919.

From mid-1916 - early 1919, there was an "embossed" label used, and cat. no. still on the edge of the record.

Nov. 1918 - March 1919 no cat. no. on the edge, or label.

Next (early 1919 - late 1921) black label with three grey bands around the outside of the label. Artists and cat. no. on label now.

From May 1921 - late 1921, the previous label style sported 3 white bands instead of grey.

Late 1921 onward used a paper label that was ½ black, and ½ white, with checkerboard border around its edge. It would remain relatively unchanged to the end of production in late 1929.

There are minute variations with all the label types. Many early recordings were re-released at later dates, using the same catalog no. also. There are many books written on the topic, and suffice it to say, like other manufacturers of the era, things get complicated quickly. There was also sometimes overlaps of the different versions, as was typical of all Edison product lines.

L & R was just their way of designating an arbitrary side 1 & 2.

Re-Creation was simply a marketing namesake for a period of time, which I'm not certain of.

Best,
Fran

fran604g wrote:Unfortunately the topic of accurately dating Edison records by label is complex.

There were many changes to the labeling over the years.

Consulting and simplifying a very small part of the great info in Collector's Guide To Edison Records by George A. Copeland and Michael W. Sherman, I'll try to explain.

Generally:

The earliest records had an all "frosted" black label, with glossy lettering, and the title numbers in white on the record's edge in 4 places. Late 1912 - late 1914.

Then came a glossy black label with frosted shields and lettering. Still had the catalog number on the edge, as the co. slowly moved toward listing artists names and the catalog number on the label. Late 1914 - early 1919.

From mid-1916 - early 1919, there was an "embossed" label used, and cat. no. still on the edge of the record.

Nov. 1918 - March 1919 no cat. no. on the edge, or label.

Next (early 1919 - late 1921) black label with three grey bands around the outside of the label. Artists and cat. no. on label now.

From May 1921 - late 1921, the previous label style sported 3 white bands instead of grey.

Late 1921 onward used a paper label that was ½ black, and ½ white, with checkerboard border around its edge. It would remain relatively unchanged to the end of production in late 1929.

There are minute variations with all the label types. Many early recordings were re-released at later dates, using the same catalog no. also. There are many books written on the topic, and suffice it to say, like other manufacturers of the era, things get complicated quickly. There was also sometimes overlaps of the different versions, as was typical of all Edison product lines.

L & R was just their way of designating an arbitrary side 1 & 2.

Re-Creation was simply a marketing namesake for a period of time, which I'm not certain of.

Best,
Fran

That got deep. (And amazing.) But you did well! Off I go to buy some records!

fran604g wrote:Unfortunately the topic of accurately dating Edison records by label is complex.

There were many changes to the labeling over the years.

Consulting and simplifying a very small part of the great info in Collector's Guide To Edison Records by George A. Copeland and Michael W. Sherman, I'll try to explain.

Generally:

The earliest records had an all "frosted" black label, with glossy lettering, and the title numbers in white on the record's edge in 4 places. Late 1912 - late 1914.

Then came a glossy black label with frosted shields and lettering. Still had the catalog number on the edge, as the co. slowly moved toward listing artists names and the catalog number on the label. Late 1914 - early 1919.

From mid-1916 - early 1919, there was an "embossed" label used, and cat. no. still on the edge of the record.

Nov. 1918 - March 1919 no cat. no. on the edge, or label.

Next (early 1919 - late 1921) black label with three grey bands around the outside of the label. Artists and cat. no. on label now.

From May 1921 - late 1921, the previous label style sported 3 white bands instead of grey.

Late 1921 onward used a paper label that was ½ black, and ½ white, with checkerboard border around its edge. It would remain relatively unchanged to the end of production in late 1929.

There are minute variations with all the label types. Many early recordings were re-released at later dates, using the same catalog no. also. There are many books written on the topic, and suffice it to say, like other manufacturers of the era, things get complicated quickly. There was also sometimes overlaps of the different versions, as was typical of all Edison product lines.

L & R was just their way of designating an arbitrary side 1 & 2.

Re-Creation was simply a marketing namesake for a period of time, which I'm not certain of.

Best,
Fran

To the foregoing excellent summary, far more comprehensive than I could have managed, I'll add just a couple of points: first, don't be surprised if occasionally you come across a diamond disc with different style labels on the two sides. Second, in addition to the catalogue number, each side of the disc will usually carry a matrix number; the former identified the two-sided disc, the latter the individual sides that were coupled to make it. A matrix number will look something like 4192-A-3-1. Edison's pressing method was hard on masters, and frequently, as one wore out, the company would put into service another take with a different matrix number; hence, if you see two copies of the same selection, but one is, say, 4192-A-3-1 and one is, say, 4192-C-3-1, they are alternate takes, not actually the same recording. Sometimes, the "alternates" can actually be later re-recordings; for example, for Reed Miller's recording of "Every Valley Shall Be Exalted" from Handel's Messiah, 3995-A, -B, and -C were all recorded in a session on 7/21/1915, -F, -G, and -H on 3/9/1921 (according to the Discography of American Historical Recordings, https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php).