The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

rgordon939 wrote:Odd that nobody mentions that the Spruce Music Master Horn itself is worth more than the Victor VI itself.

Rich Gordon

Isn't that pretty much true of any wooden horn on any phonograph?

As for Music Masters in particular, I'm all for them on Edisons (especially if they have the decals pictured!), but I'm kind of a purist, and I don't like machines that were obviously altered later, even if it was the original owner who did the "upgrade." If it wasn't something you could do at the dealer's, I don't want it. I remember going to Jasper's house after Union more than 20 years ago (!), and he had SIX Victor VI's, all with Victor horns. Some may not have been original to the machine (I didn't dare ask!), but at least they were all Victor horns. So I imagine he, at least, felt the same way about defining originality. I wonder how many others out there do?

Interestingly, it was seeing all of those Victor VI's in one place back then that made me start to think that maybe they weren't the holy grail of phonographs, after all. (I have since found one, and I enjoy it, but not more than I do other machines.) Which also makes me wonder if, as someone else on this thread seemed to imply, does rarity necessarily correspond to value?

I thought I read somewhere that the late Victor V's came with a Music Master horn.

In the UK, Marathon gramophones were catalogued with the Oak Music Master horn as an extra cost option. Here is one which I tried unsuccessfully to buy.

The owner knew nothing about the machine and implied that it might be for sale. I knew it to be rare, but rarity does not always equate with value and the horn in particular needed work. I did a lot of research, gave him all the information I could find and made him a very fair offer for it unseen. I never heard another word. No good deed goes unpunished.

Some time later a fellow collector told me that it or it's twin (unlikely) had sold at auction. After auctioneer's fees etc the owner netted less than my offer.

Zenger wrote: Interestingly, it was seeing all of those Victor VI's in one place back then that made me start to think that maybe they weren't the holy grail of phonographs, after all. (I have since found one, and I enjoy it, but not more than I do other machines.) Which also makes me wonder if, as someone else on this thread seemed to imply, does rarity necessarily correspond to value?

Not necessarily. There are off-brand phonographs made during the 1916-1925 period, of which only one or two examples are known. Yet, they're still $200 phonographs, unless there's something unusual about them.

The Victor VI certainly isn't a rare phonograph. Nor is the Edison Opera/Concert. But if enough collectors feel they must have one, the price goes up.

George P.

This machine brings back a couple of bad memories. One is of a Victor VI that I passed on, not because it didn't have a horn (it didn't, but those are easy enough to find), but because it didn't have a crank. At that time, I had been looking for a crank for my VV-XII for YEARS and hadn't had any luck. I knew that the Vic. VI and the VV-XII used the same motor, but I had no idea what the reach and throw might be on the VI's crank, so I passed. I think I actually did the right thing, because to this day I have NEVER seen a VI crank offered anywhere (though I have since found one for my XII), and judging from my VI (which I found many years later, and which did have a crank), it is unique to that machine. Am I mistaken about that?

The VI in the pictures on this thread appears to be missing its crank (and crank escutcheon). Like I said, it brings up bad memories.

Another time, I was looking at a beautiful Victor IV with a Music Master horn that was spruce on the inside and mahogany on the outside. (I can't tell for sure from the pictures on this thread if that horn is mahogany or not, but I don't believe it is -- it looks like oak to me. Anyone think it's mahogany or something other than oak?) The horn had pretty much identical damage to the rim/lip (which makes me wonder if this is a common problem with Music Masters?), and the owner very graciously let me take it to a restorer I know to see what he thought. I ended up taking it to three different people (that's how badly I wanted this IV), and all three of them said that if there had been damage to the body of the horn they could have fixed that seamlessly, but because of the construction of the rim, it was impossible to do it in a way that wouldn't be really obvious. So I passed on that one, too.

Ah, well, we all have to draw lines somewhere...

All right, I figure I owe everyone an update since I started this mess. I was pretty surprised to learn it was in CT, since my friend and I both live in CA. I asked him about it, and he revealed he was actually asking for someone else, who I guess came to him with the same questions he brought to me. (Nice to know he thinks I know so much!) He told me the guy did end up buying it -- for $450! Imagine haggling someone down on that! He didn't offer the buyer's name, and I didn't ask, on the off-chance it's someone I already know and like. I'd hate to think of someone I respect doing something like that to some poor seller, ignorant though they may have been. (Please don't tell me it was some sweet little old lady!) I do know a few collectors who live in that part of the country, and I really hope it's not one of them.

I do, however, have a picture of the machine's serial number, from the listing. For search engine optimization, it's a Victor VI phonograph, serial number 6022. (See picture.) Now, if it ever comes up for sale, we'll at least know how and where the seller got it, and what he paid for it.

Hyperion wrote:I do, however, have a picture of the machine's serial number, from the listing. For search engine optimization, it's a Victor VI phonograph, serial number 6022. (See picture.) Now, if it ever comes up for sale, we'll at least know how and where the seller got it, and what he paid for it.

Well, that didn't take long! Thank you to the eagle-eyed TMFer who called my attention to this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MAHOGANY-VICTO ... 4488727142

Nice of the seller to include a photo of the ID plate with serial number so we could all know for sure. It looks like he didn't do any restoration on it. (When would he have had time?) That must be why he's only asking $8,950.00 for it. Luckily, he was able to talk the seller (a genuine little old widow in Connecticut, my friend was able to find out) down from $500.00 to $450.00; otherwise, he would have had to ask $9,000.00 for the machine. It looks like he was reading the forum and got some pointers about how to market that MM horn. Well done, J & L Antiques of the Hudson Valley, 612 Violet Ave, Hyde Park, NY 12538, Telephone 845-633-5121! Be sure to call and commend him on his sterling business ethics!