The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi George (phonogfp) ,

After reading this post and the previous post that you referenced above

phonogfp wrote:EDIT: Here's a post about another early caseless Eagle:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22062&p=131462&hilit=caseless#p131462

I decided to look at my eagle more closely, as I was never able to find a serial number. I still could not find one, but wondered if you might be able to shed any light... I've included a couple of overall pictures of my eagle.
After looking more closely, I now see where at one time it appeared to have had a data plate, at least I now see evidence of 4 tiny holes where the data plate use to be, but it is no longer there.
I looked at the belt cover, and it has a place for a number, but no number...
I looked at the back edge of the metal base, and it almost looks like it was ground at some time.
I cleaned it to see if there was any evidence of a number, but don't see one.
Also, there is a "K" stamped on the top side of the back of the metal base...
Just curious to hear your thoughts.

Hello CylinderFan,

Your Eagle was originally sold as a $12 cased version, but at some point, someone removed the dataplate containing the serial number. This seems to have been a surprisingly common occurrence (I've owned at least 3 like this myself), but who knows the reason for it.

The production characteristics of your Eagle suggest its serial was somewhere between approx. 402,000 and 421,000. I can't make out which decal version is on your lid, nor if there's a decal on the rear; those details might help narrow the range a bit.

George P.

phonogfp wrote:Hello CylinderFan,

Your Eagle was originally sold as a $12 cased version, but at some point, someone removed the dataplate containing the serial number. This seems to have been a surprisingly common occurrence (I've owned at least 3 like this myself), but who knows the reason for it.

The production characteristics of your Eagle suggest its serial was somewhere between approx. 402,000 and 421,000. I can't make out which decal version is on your lid, nor if there's a decal on the rear; those details might help narrow the range a bit.

George P.

Thanks George! Here is a photo of the case.
Also, what about the belt cover... Is it unusual for it to have no number?
and does it look to you like the serial number on the beck edge of the metal base may have been ground off at sometime? If so, why would someone have done that? Hard to say, I guess...
Finally, any idea what the "K" means - stamped on the back of the base?
Thanks for your help.

Vicki,

That lid decal PLUS the other production characteristics narrows your serial number to the range of approx. 402,000 to 403,500. That was a stroke of luck, as your machine was built as some things were being discontinued and others were appearing. It's not usually possible to estimate an Eagle's serial number that closely!

CylinderFan wrote:
Also, what about the belt cover... Is it unusual for it to have no number?
and does it look to you like the serial number on the beck edge of the metal base may have been ground off at sometime? If so, why would someone have done that? Hard to say, I guess...
Finally, any idea what the "K" means - stamped on the back of the base?
Thanks for your help.

It's not at all unusual for Eagle belt covers to carry no serial number. The cased Eagles were sold that way, and cased Eagles are far, far, more common than the uncased variety.

The serial numbers stamped into the back edge of the metal baseplate is found only on uncased Eagles. Yours never had the number stamped there.

Various letters are sometimes (but not always) found stamped on the metal baseplates. After many years of studying Eagles, I still have no definitive explanation, but I suspect it's merely a code for a particular stamper used to fabricate the part. Why such a code would sometimes appear and sometimes not is a mystery to me. All this is only speculation on my part.

I hope this helps - -

George P.

Thanks George, very helpful.

You're most welcome, Vicki.

George P.

GMBH wrote:The indestructables play quite nicely on mine, but I think I'm gonna have to put a new wax ring in the reproducer as it's pretty quiet. I'm also gonna have to replace that little piece of felt or leather that's on the governor speed tensioner. Not surprising that it's worn down though considering how old this machine is.

I got the impression it is not good to play the Indestructible (celluloid) cylinders on my Eagle. I thought it would ruin the reproducer? Wear it down? Neil

I've had no issues with indestructables on mine. But I had to stop playing any records on mine at all as I noticed a sometimes slight sometimes obnoxious echo in the stylus. I think one of the original owners dropped the needle on the mandrel by accident thus it needs a new stylus. Also the felt pad that controls the speed for the governor needs replacing as if I adjust the speed too much metal starts grinding on metal. Wondering if there's anyone on here I could send it out for repairs to. As I'm not so sure about replacingthe stylus myself.

As others have noted, the phonograph was manufactured ca. 1897 and was designed to play early brown wax records. If you're playing Indestructible records on it, which were manufactured almost a decade later and recorded at a higher speed than brown wax records, then you're running the mandrel at a higher speed than its manufacturer intended -- much higher. So before you repair or replace anything, make sure the metal-on-metal noise you're hearing is in fact the sound of the brake pad pressing against the brake disc and not the sound of the lead weights hitting the bedplate. Because if you're having to adjust the governor to the point where the phonograph will play Indestructible records at the correct speed, that's the sound you might be hearing. I don't know how many times your Eagle has changed hands since I owned it, but the governor was working fine when it was mine, and the stylus was in good condition, too.

-- Grant

It's definitely the felt pad is worn down. It should have no issue with a slightly higher speed. Anything I play is too slow at first and when I turn up the speed that piece that the felt pads on grinds. I've been extra careful not to drop the needle on the mandrel and have not once. Which is the only thing that could've caused this echo other than decades worth of wear. It had the echo when it came in, it's just fainter and less delayed on some records. I have a ebay repro floating reproducer but it doesn't fit correctly at all so I'm going to need to find someone to replace the stylus and seal the casing perfectly. Either way it's no huge deal, I've just been playing the indestructables on my perfect working columbia BK until this is sorted out. I got this machine to play my older records in the first place, I figured it'd be safer than risking one of my 2 brown wax records.