Washers at the bottom of HMV 102 spring case, Russian copy?

[Inigo]

I've seen washers OUTSIDE the spring barrel, between the outer brass bearing at the bottom of the barrel and the motor plate.

[nostalgia]

I guess we should call it just another strange gramophone phenomena;)
I do not hope I find any thin washers inside my next 102 service, if I do..I will tell, or maybe not, to save our hearts;)

[soundgen]

Your motor on this machine is very odd I have never seen a motor with a base like yours no mention of HMV such strange pittings and the also the governor weights are unlike any I have seen as well , looks almost like an Indian reproduction job , very , very strange

[Phono48]

Your motor on this machine is very odd I have never seen a motor with a base like yours no mention of HMV such strange pittings and the also the governor weights are unlike any I have seen as well , looks almost like an Indian reproduction job , very , very strange

I agree! I've looked at the three 102 machines I have that are the same as the one pictured (102E and 102H) and they all have same motor as the one Soundgen has shown.

[gramophoneshane]

Your motor on this machine is very odd I have never seen a motor with a base like yours no mention of HMV such strange pittings and the also the governor weights are unlike any I have seen as well , looks almost like an Indian reproduction job , very , very strange

They are reproducing a very poor quality copy of the Garrard 11a, so it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[nostalgia]

Well, I did not mention the motor much in my thread start, but the complete thing has given me strange impressions all the way through the servicing. This is only the second model 202 I service, after having serviced 5 copies of model 101, and I was not able to determine if this is how HMV made this exact model or not. When you now mention also that the pittings and governor weights are unlike anything you have seen on a model 102, and then we have the tonearm fastening nuts that Barry mentioned, and the oddities of the spring drum, well....then in total this machine feels very different. Also no HMV stamps on the motor, and I did also not yet mention that the turntable is also not falling easily back into its position after being removed. I could not understand why it kept halting even if it was lowered completely, and when testing a different turntable from a black 102, it did not fit at all! But again, I am not in the position to tell if there are differences to the turntables from earlier and late models of the 102, and if they do not overlap each other. I managed to finally get the turntable back in its position though, and now it plays well, I have now also tested with a stroboscope and adjusted the speed indicator, and well, it now plays well. A 5B soundbox was by the way attached when I bought it, and the soundbox luckily looks genuine enough;)
...and, I have a HMV 270d motor that I actually could replace this odd motor with, but then again I would destroy this oddity...

[Phono48]

That motor is very reminiscence of the one I have in my Russian "102 clone". You mention that your 102 came without the autobrake. Has the present turntable got the ring around the centre of the pillar, as fitted to other HMVs? If not, then that indicates that the autobrake was removed because it wouldn't work with the present turntable. The turntables remained the same throughout production, so if an original HMV turntable doesn't fit, then it looks like the motor has been replaced, which could explain why you had such difficulty fitting it back into the case. I hate to say this, but given the wrong bolts on the arm base, and the strange motor, and the missing auto brake, it is looking more and more as if this machine has been cobbled together with whatever odd parts the owner had to hand. If you have a spare HMV motor, which is the correct one, I would fit that, and try to find the proper arm bolts, which shouldn't be difficult, to bring this machine back to it's original condition. Just my opinion!

[soundgen]

Well, I did not mention the motor much in my thread start, but the complete thing has given me strange impressions all the way through the servicing. This is only the second model 202 I service, after having serviced 5 copies of model 101, and I was not able to determine if this is how HMV made this exact model or not. When you now mention also that the pittings and governor weights are unlike anything you have seen on a model 102, and then we have the tonearm fastening nuts that Barry mentioned, and the oddities of the spring drum, well....then in total this machine feels very different. Also no HMV stamps on the motor, and I did also not yet mention that the turntable is also not falling easily back into its position after being removed. I could not understand why it kept halting even if it was lowered completely, and when testing a different turntable from a black 102, it did not fit at all! But again, I am not in the position to tell if there are differences to the turntables from earlier and late models of the 102, and if they do not overlap each other. I managed to finally get the turntable back in its position though, and now it plays well, I have now also tested with a stroboscope and adjusted the speed indicator, and well, it now plays well. A 5B soundbox was by the way attached when I bought it, and the soundbox luckily looks genuine enough;)
...and, I have a HMV 270d motor that I actually could replace this odd motor with, but then again I would destroy this oddity...

It would be interesting to see more pictures of the machine case etc if you can post them

[soundgen]

That motor is very reminiscence of the one I have in my Russian "102 clone". You mention that your 102 came without the autobrake. Has the present turntable got the ring around the centre of the pillar, as fitted to other HMVs? If not, then that indicates that the autobrake was removed because it wouldn't work with the present turntable. The turntables remained the same throughout production, so if an original HMV turntable doesn't fit, then it looks like the motor has been replaced, which could explain why you had such difficulty fitting it back into the case. I hate to say this, but given the wrong bolts on the arm base, and the strange motor, and the missing auto brake, it is looking more and more as if this machine has been cobbled together with whatever odd parts the owner had to hand. If you have a spare HMV motor, which is the correct one, I would fit that, and try to find the proper arm bolts, which shouldn't be difficult, to bring this machine back to it's original condition. Just my opinion!

Yes Russian 102 clone motor ! I should have known I have repaired these in the past , so we need more photos perhaps it is Russian , perhaps it is this motor 1

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ ... -612198280


"This motor was taken from a Russian copy of an HMV 102 gramophone and comes with its turntable and winding handle. It has been lubricated, is in working order and will play a record, but is rather noisy in operation. I noticed also that the turntable looks a little wobbly as it rotates, though not excessively so. Some dimensions are not exactly the same as a 270 series motor and parts are not interchangeable for this reason, and to fit it to a 102 motor board would require some small modification of the motor board: the speed adjustment lever does not operate in quite the same plane and one or more fixing bolt holes may not match up exactly. An interesting project nevertheless, which would require a little time and expertise to bring it up to scratch "

[nostalgia]

Vow, Soundgen, this is interesting stuff ! You nailed the motor !! I here upload 11 more photos of the gramophone, it will be exciting to hear what are HMV parts here, and what are not, and in total what has happened here. And Barry, I am not able to answer directly your question about the turntable, I am not sure exactly what the ring around the pillar is, is it the "lock" around the base of the turntable? I attach a photo of the turntable. English is not my mother tongue, and sometimes I come up short in tech talk. Also the color of the felt is wrong, and also the texture feels strange, but that can of course be changed. For a period I wondered if it was a genuine HMV turntable, since it also has a black back side?
Whatever this gramophone is it is kind of interesting, and I am not even sure if I will be able to fit in a genuine HMV motor? I hope you guys can tell if the motorboard is genuine etc. Myself I am not sure, since it looks very different from the green 102 I have, which is an earlier version of the 102 with a panel in the lid. I attach 11 more photos, taken this evening. I have a spare black 102 with all genuine parts, also with an autobrake, tone arm support, motor etc..that I can use for upgrade this gramophone. I paid only 35 euro for this black 102. This red HMV(?) came my way last autumn, I paid 70 euro for it, and since the 5b soundbox also was attached to it, I grabbed it. But here we go with the photos. If you need more photos to determine facts, then just tell, and I will take some more.