Good starter horn machine for a friend?

[gramophoneshane]

Im curious to know what qualifies as "a good starter machine"?
If price is the main issue, then wouldn't a clean original swiss made horn machine with a decent sized motor be alright?
They often sell for far less, and perform just as well as any Victor/HMV machine with a metal horn & Exhibition soundbox.

[Valecnik]

Yea "good starter machine" can be interpreted pretty broadly.

I think one of those Swiss machines would actually be a "good starter" at a cheaper price too but assuming that the guy lives in North America, a Victor wouldprobably be much easier to find.

[gramophoneshane]

How about some of the Columbias then?
They seem to be quite cheap at times too, compared to Victors.
I've never owned a Columbia, so Im not sure if they have tracking issues etc, but I've always felt they sell (in USA) for far less than I'd expect for a "name brand" machine that are supposedly of pretty good quality.

[Valecnik]

I really don't know why the Columbias are not valued higher. They certainly were a name brand selling quality stuff and they are visually attractive.

From a technical perspective, I've always been a bit scared of that stiff tonearm versus the Victor approach allowing the reproducer to float more. If one wanted to use it alot, I think record wear could be an issue but I've no evidence of that... And an Exhibition or No.2 reproducer you can find anywhere and they are easily repaired. Columbias are a little less available imho.

[gramophoneshane]

I really don't know why the Columbias are not valued higher. They certainly were a name brand selling quality stuff and they are visually attractive.

I think it's because (as demonstrated by this thread) most American collectors only know 2 words... Victor & Edison
There seems to some sort of misconseption over there, that Victors are the miracles of the gramophone world.

[OrthoSean]

LOL Shane!

Columbia made some gorgeous machines. I have a BD (their answer to the Victor VI) and it's a big beautiful and HEAVY beast of a machine with an enormous nickel plated horn. Stunning to look at, especially on it's matching base cabinet. I've got a nice BF cylinder machine and the 711 Viva Tonal. One example from each era and that's enough. Columbias aren't gentle on records like Victors are, the arms and mass are MUCH heavier and I wouldn't play any good records more than once on them. The VT machine is an exception and probably equal to Victor on records, but an outside horn or Grafonola will chew up good records with that extra weight. I only play Indestructibles on the BF, wax cylinders will wear under the spring tension of the Lyric reproducer much more quickly than an Edison.

That's my $.02 on the subject. Love my BD, but it doesn't get played much because of the "wear" factor and pehaps this is why others prefer Victor / HMV machines like I do. Just a guess.

Sean

[gramophoneshane]

Is the BD the one with the light aluminium alloy (not potmetal) tonearm?
I once had a Columbia back bracket, tonearm, soundbox & nickelled horn, that I made a frankenphone out of. The tonearm moved freely, and I never noticed any wear occuring from using it. The soundbox had a brass back, but wasn't any heavier overall.

[OrthoSean]

Yep, that's the one.

It's definitely got a heavier mass, the entire weight of the arm and reproducer are on the record rather than just the soundbox like a Victor. You may not notice record wear after just one play, but I had a really clean Josie Sadler Columbia disc that might have been new that I used to play on the BD a lot. After 5 or 6 plays, I could see grey in the grooves. Of course, the reproducer is rebuilt and the needle was always a fresh one.

Sean

[Jerry B.]

I think the original question was referring to a good starter disk horn machine. I made the assumption it was for an American buyer. I suggested a Vic III because it's very attractive, reliable, inexpensive, and parts are easily available. I love my Zonophones, Stars, Columbias, and others but a Victor is tough to beat. I think it's important to attract new collectors. The buyer that wants one machine has the potential to become a collector and I want his first experience to be a good one. That was my logic to suggesting a Vic III. Happy collecting, Jerry Blais

[Valecnik]

Ortho,

Your BD is a really impressive machine. You should make it a featured phono sometime. I agree though they are record eaters.

I've got only one Columbia disc machine, an AH with a 36 inch aluminium horn. I never play it. It's a record carnivore as most front mounts are but worse.

I've got a BGT, the favorite among the Columbia's I own but I rarely play that either. Again an impressive machine but my Triumph with O reproducer sounds much better and will play any standard sized record very well, much better than the BGT.