The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

What a mess.

Well, take it easy & don't forget that collectors sometimes aren't the fastest-moving people in the world. Most of your phonograph collectors have a pretty busy routine & the collecting is just something done on the side. So it's easy to forget stuff. Also, imagine the buyer's disappointment: nice phonograph, fully rebuilt, otherwise an excellent deal--and opens the box to find it has been reduced from a turn-key piece to a parts special or project machine.

The stuff about packing more securely--remember what I mentioned once about these crazy things? They bounce. The damage to the top board suggests that the weight of the motor and bed-plate shifted and destroyed the top. This would have let the whole thing bounce inside the case, which would have cracked the carriage arm. You mentioned there were some screws missing. I bet you this is where a lot of the problem started. If it's not 100% complete and all parts tied down, it has even less of a chance to survive the shipping.

I do not like shipping cylinder phonographs unless I take the whole bedplate out, and make a little "case" out of cardboard to set it in, with a lid and everything. The wooden case gets to be a storage box for crank, reproducer, accessories, the belt (I take that off to keep it from getting oil on it which might make it slip) and whatever else, usually a note to the buyer...if a collector, well wishes; if a new collector, that and assembly directions.

Boxes get reinforced along the corners, and the walls filled with extra cardboard...ever since I bought an Edison once that arrived with the crank sticking out of the side of the packaging. (One good lick would have destroyed the motor & possibly cracked the bedplate.) Corner reinforcements can be found at any first-rate Dumpster behind a furniture store of your choice. I just go over & lift the lid & go right on in after the good stuff.

That's a bit of a tough mess out of what was a very nice Model B Standard but yes, even though FedEx and UPS tend to go through these packages a bit harshly, dismantling before packaging has saved many phonographs from ending up damaged.

I think the Standard could be fixed in an afternoon if you found a new carriage-arm and some screws.

Well Said...Seems from the text screen that the buyer made you aware of the situation and you still said that he didnt respond?? With all of this mess, you still took 30 days to reimburse him? Come on!!

Again, there is no excuse for the poor packing from a collector. I go overboard when shipping things..it only takes a few extra minutes and a very few dollars.. The sad thing in this mess is that a 100 year old machine has survived this long to only be destroyed by carelessness...

There is no excuse for the missing gear cover and other parts now, especially since those parts are clearly seen as received in the photos provided to you by the buyer showing the damage.

If the packing was bad yet the buyer got a full refund, plus return shipping, and the machine was returned incomplete, how on earth is the seller the bad guy? The buyer clearly received these parts as photo evidence shows.

Perhaps a good resolution now, if the buyer does not have the time to find the parts he failed to send back, would be to send the seller the approximate value of the missing gear cover? We all know they go for a good $65-$80 on ebay, I believe. Shame about the missing wood trim, however. The seller now has lost a good amount of money, and I'm sure that wasn't his intention. Very sorry to hear this situation.

I'm following this thread with curious interest, but I'm having a difficult time understanding all that's transpired.

Have the OP's multiple edits caused deletion to some pertinent details?

Best,
Fran

Well, looks like I missed the text screenshot from Doc. I miss a lot of things.

Hey David, no offense, but I've been "the slow guy" before in other transactions with other sellers. Getting in a hurry (plus possible metal fatigue) cost you a Home bedplate and necessitated a ton of repairs. Don't let getting in a hurry cost you a working relationship with good collectors, especially when you asked me about packing a phonograph up, and I told you my unnecessarily complicated DIY version of a packing crate and you were like, "that sounds like too much."

In the business Doc is running, with old clocks and watches, you know he's got to be a man of his word. I like clocks and watches, not fancy ones, but plain old Hamilton pocket watches are my favorites to collect. (Two is a collection unless they suddenly get cheaper to fix LOL.) Anyway, horology community prides itself on doing honest work. When one old watch can cost an easy $3500, which is the kind of money my brother spent to buy a nice big Buick six, honesty is just as essential as technical skills, and I daresay even more so. Dishonest clockmakers & Victrola repairmen do not last in this business.

You're not being ripped off, David; I'd about guarantee you that. Courtesy more than oil and grease is really what speeds the wheels in this hobby. I would wager, considering this has been a long-term deal that already is upsetting for any true collector (seeing that a perfectly functional Edison got badly damaged), that Doc has been quite patient with you and simply expects the same.

David,
If you ever intend to ship a machine in the future, do this:
(1) remove the reproducer and crank. Wrap them in bubble wrap and place them in the lid of the machine. Wrap the lid and place it in box #1 with plenty of packing to keep it from moving
(2) remove the bedplate and motor, wrap them with a plastic grocery bag and tape it tightly so nothing will move, then wrap them in bubble wrap and place them in a separate box (box #2) with plenty of packing. The best option at this point would be to double box these heavy parts so that they don't break through the single layered first box.
The bedplate and motor are too heavy to leave attached to the cabinet or wooden pieces will break, as you found out...
(3) place the cabinet in a separate box (box #3) and pack it well with peanuts, etc.
(4) if a horn is included, pack it in another box (box #4) with nothing else included and several inches of space all around, filled with packing material...

Ship it by USPS Priority Mail insured, NOT UPS and it should get there with no problem. Mark all boxes "FRAGILE" and number each one - #1 of 4, #2 of 4, etc. Yes, it's expensive to ship this way, but it avoids potential headaches and lost or broken parts... Also, don't trust mail service "packing experts" to do the job for you...
Raphael recommends FEDEX for shipping, and since he ships a lot of expensive things, I'm sure he's right...

Curt,

As I’ve noted in recent posts, USPS is absolutely the worst shipping method these days. COVID has their system almost at a standstill in some areas.

I agree with you on the packing instructions but, properly packed, Fedex will get it there safely. In 40 years of shipping they’ve never lost a package on me and USPS has made packages disappear into thin air. My wife is waiting since 1985 for a shipment of books she sent from England to her home in FL. I’ve had shipments this year taking over 2 months and still no delivery.

A tip for any method: always boldly write the tracking # on the box. Don’t rely on the label to stay put when the box is sorted at various intermediary hubs.

Raphael

Thanks for the heads up, Raphael... All I know is that I would never trust UPS with an important shipment, they seem to like testing the boxes with their Hi-Lows...

John thank you for shipping the parts back to me. I apologize for not being as patient with you as you were with me. I want to also thank you for how you sent the standard back. It was very well packed, and I was able to see how to properly ship a cylinder phonograph.

David

One thing that has always annoyed me on this site is members that want to publicly air their personal problems. If you're having issues with a transaction that is a shame, but most of us probably don't want to hear about it. Real men solve their own problems privately, please think about that before you drag the rest of us into it.