The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Marty Bufalini wrote:I don't want to usurp this thread, but i have another AH question.

How do I know if my AH takes the brass or leather elbow?

Thanks.

A horn that takes the brass elbow steps down to a straight section, designed to slip into the elbow. A horn meant for a leather elbow just abruptly ends, as in a truncated cone. There is obviously a date of manufacture associated with that changeover, but that's for smarter folks than me!

(Knowing your phonograph Marty, I'd say it's correct with its brass elbow)

Jerry V: Thanks

How do I know if my AH takes the brass or leather elbow?

I'd suggest you post a photo. I've seen early machines that had a brass elbow but I'm skeptical. Optimistic owners claim it was an original owner upgrade. But the deliberate change would require a different horn that accepted the brass elbow. If it was an "upgrade" the end result was an almost identical looking machine with the same basic style of horn. The "upgrade" was minimal. I think it much more likely the machine, possibly incomplete, passed through collector hands and it was easier to complete with a horn that accepted the brass elbow. I do think machines were upgraded but probably more so when styles change. For example when horn styles changed an owner of a humpback Victor II might have purchased a Victor Flower horn to give his machine a more current look. My opinion...

Jerry Blais

JerryVan wrote:If it helps any, the mounting hole spacing on my AH, (an early version, like yours), is 22mm. Yours appears to measure 16mm?

Also, the tone arm on mine is not the open, filigreed style, with the cast aluminum horn cradle, that yours is. Mine has the bent wire cradle. Don't know if that's relevant or not.

Hi Jerry,
if you mean the space between hole and hole, they are about 11 mm... very strange...

Jerry B. wrote:I have an extra piece that mounts to the cabinetl. It's the piece the support arm drops down into. Jerry B.

Ciao Jerry,
could you please send me a picture?

JerryVan wrote:If it helps any, the mounting hole spacing on my AH, (an early version, like yours), is 22mm. Yours appears to measure 16mm?

Also, the tone arm on mine is not the open, filigreed style, with the cast aluminum horn cradle, that yours is. Mine has the bent wire cradle. Don't know if that's relevant or not.

16 mm is the space on a standard arm support that I have and which fits mostly all the Columbia cabinets that I have.

Here are photos of my spare bracket for mounting a Columbia support arm. Jerry B.

Appears that Jerry B's measures 22mm, as does mine.

Ok I got curious today while I was down in the phonolair and took the front mount bracket off my early AH.
So my machine does indeed have two mounting holes ⅝"(16mm)apart, not ⅞"(22mm) apart, center to center.
But the mounting bracket holes are ⅞"(22mm) apart.
The mounting bracket was held on using one screw not two.
You can see from the witness mark where the unused screw hole left a mark in the case finish.
I've never had this machine apart for any cleaning so I never noticed it before.
The one screw that is being used is much longer than the two screws you normally see used on these brackets.
So this doesn't explain anything but it sure makes me wonder if there isn't another bracket with holes closer together than the norm were use to seeing. Or could some of the early AH's been miss drilled.

Not to go off topic, I was not aware that Columbia ever had a model with a record hold down clamp.

I have an early AH. I will look at the spacing between holes. I think it better to measure center-to-center rather than edge-to-edge.

By the way, the two machines shown are both good-looking machines.

John