The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Congratulations on your great find:) I really like it, and when you find a good horn for it, it will be a great machine:)

A single spring motor would probably only play one record (one side) whereas a double spring motor could play 2 or 3 sides on one winding. The single spring motor would normally be found on the Junior Monarchs. His Masters Gramophone suggests there was a supply shortage around 1904 and some Cockleshell Monarchs were equipped with single spring motors and sold as Junior Monarchs. Whether this practise also occurred later I do not know. But member 'Oedipus' almost certainly would.

I find the transfer-decal interesting on this machine. Whilst it appears to be an obvious repro it omits the word 'Typewriter' from the script. This would be correct for the last of this style of banner transfer. Perhaps someone has gone to some trouble to replace the actual transfer that was on the machine rather than use the G&T banner repro which is more easily available.

Cheers, nostalgia, but I haven't bought it yet, but I'd like to and have messaged the seller about details. Unfortunately the seller informed me that when he tested it this morning the spring broke! So he's taken it to his workshop to fix and he'll get back to me.

Jamiegramo, thanks for your info and thoughts. So, it's possible that this machine might actually be a 1904 G&T machine? That would be really interesting, but the decal being the later type, and as your arguments suggest, it may be a later one from c.1909. I'll message the seller and ask him about it. He rebuilt the motor, did some refinishing and stuff like that, so maybe he replaced the transfer. And I guess the soundbox could have been added much later, replacing the original G&T soundbox. I could always keep my eyes peeled for an original someday and change the transfer back if it turns out to be a G&T machine. Cheers again for your thoughts. It's given me a lot to think on.

I had one years back which I recall being G&T but you’ll probably find they turn up with G&T or gramophone company transfers. The serial number underneath may indicate where it sits in the production run. I have a senior monarch stamped 23 underneath.
They are often enough on eBay in Europe to get a feel of price.

Stephen

Cheers Stephen. I appreciate your thoughts. I believe the Cockleshell Monarch was issued up until 1909 or 1910, so a couple years after G&T changed their name to just The Gramophone Company, so I assumed the decal would indicate a post-1907 date. But just trying to figure out if the machine is a G&T but has just had an incorrect decal and a later soundbox added to it.

Hi Josh.
It would’ve very difficult to determine if it was originally ”GramophoneCompany” or G&T.
The soundbox on it is correct for the transfer.

Regards
Stephen

Thanks Stephen. That's fair enough.

Regarding value or price, that is a relative question. More importantly, what is the seller asking for it?

The seller is asking £450. So just shy of $550.

jamiegramo wrote:A single spring motor would probably only play one record (one side) whereas a double spring motor could play 2 or 3 sides on one winding. The single spring motor would normally be found on the Junior Monarchs. His Masters Gramophone suggests there was a supply shortage around 1904 and some Cockleshell Monarchs were equipped with single spring motors and sold as Junior Monarchs. Whether this practise also occurred later I do not know. But member 'Oedipus' almost certainly would.

I find the transfer-decal interesting on this machine. Whilst it appears to be an obvious repro it omits the word 'Typewriter' from the script. This would be correct for the last of this style of banner transfer. Perhaps someone has gone to some trouble to replace the actual transfer that was on the machine rather than use the G&T banner repro which is more easily available.

The transfer is a pre Typewriter copy so pre 1901 isn't it ?