SOLD: Columbia BS Coin-Op Case and Parts - $700

[gramophone-georg]

Sorry Jerry but bottom line is that Mark was wrong. I can see what happened. The original listing said offers were considered. Mark went from saying that he did not get a message, to he got the message with a $600 offer and then he let the cat out of the bag and said the final buyer paid more than asking price. Bottom line is that he did get an offer from Ticticdok and before he could acknowledge it or negotiate it, he received an offer from another buyer willing to pay more. The only time that I have seen this happen is when an item is potentially sold and someone is trying to get it before it is lost. Ticticdok was first in line and was negotiating. Mark could have at least said that he had an offer at full price from someone else and given the first responder the first choice. This would be the responsible and ethical thing to do. Bad seller in my book, and I do not play games like this. Ive had people do it to me too, and I just leave them alone..Basic credibility seems thrown out the window for a few dollars...

The listing still says "asking price" and "offers considered".

[cmshapiro]

There wasn’t a glitch Jerry because he knew the amount. The question here was the lack of integrity on the sellers part. We have a lot of great people on this forum and this is no reflection on you whatsoever. I’m done with this! Hope whoever it is enjoys your BS case...

I can assure you that Mark is a very ethical collector who trades very fairly. I have done business with him and he is a true gentleman. His post clearly states that when the PM came though blank, you made an offer by email. Now you are claiming he was not consistent with his story because the PM must have gone through. Did you not send him an email with your offer?

If you had posted "SOLD" as the first reply and sent $700 it would have been yours. Those are the forum rules to successfully claiming an item as yours. You did not do that. You sent an email with an offer below asking price, and it was rejected. No one owes you right or opportunity to buy at your offer just because you were the first to make an offer.

[FellowCollector]

[removed by author]

[Jerry B.]

I don't believe anyone has done anything wrong here. I think it's the seller's responsibility to lay out the ground rules. In the future I will try to be consistent and say:

" All communication is by Personal Messages here on the Forum. Questions or offers are welcome but they do not imply an item is on hold. The buyer is the first to PM "SOLD!"

Can anyone see a scenario with the above that would allow for any misunderstandings? If so, please explain or give an example. I have been in a situation where I received emails, calls, and personal messages and it was difficult to tell who was first. I want to avoid that situation. Some people are members of the Church of Born Again Tire Kickers and negotiations and questions can drag on and on. I'm not going there. If I receive three personal messages and the first is an offer, the second says "sold" and the third says "sold and I'll give you extra $$", my sale is to the first to say simply "sold." The first offer did not place the item on hold. To accept the extra money from the third party would be unethical on my part.

Since we have no official forum rules, I think it's the responsibility of the seller to plainly write the ground rules in the body of the post. To do any less allows the possibility of personal interpretation leading to misunderstanding and hard feelings. These are avoidable issues.

Respectfully submitted, Jerry Blais

[ticticdok]

Jerry, the point is here again, the seller named the price and he also said “Reasonable offers considered” . I was just seeing if he would consider a reasonable offer first. The right and honorable thing to do was to accept or decline the first offer and move on but as with a lot of circumstances, greed took over then it was every man for himself. I guess I just grew up in a more honorable and respectful time where a mans word meant something and honesty had its place. Apparently not here! If the seller was on the end of a lifeline to pull you to safety, what predicament would you be in? Think about it. All of this is stuff and doesn’t really matter, but your reputation always supersedes you...

[Valecnik]

Jerry, the point is here again, the seller named the price and he also said “Reasonable offers considered” . I was just seeing if he would consider a reasonable offer first. The right and honorable thing to do was to accept or decline the first offer and move on but as with a lot of circumstances, greed took over then it was every man for himself. I guess I just grew up in a more honorable and respectful time where a mans word meant something and honesty had its place. Apparently not here! If the seller was on the end of a lifeline to pull you to safety, what predicament would you be in? Think about it. All of this is stuff and doesn’t really matter, but your reputation always supersedes you...

I agree with Jerry. Perhaps some miscommunication, (on both sides), but greed or lack of honor?

Personally I've lost purchases to lots of items at Union & elsewhere to the guy who stepped in front of me and started peeling off the bank notes. If the item was so important to you a simple PM stating "Sold!" would most surely have guaranteed you got it.

[Jerry B.]

" All communication is by Personal Messages here on the Forum. Questions or offers are welcome but they do not imply an item is on hold. The buyer is the first to PM "SOLD!"

If I were selling by the above rules I don't think anyone would accuse me of being greedy or unethical or any of the other loaded words you used. I did not have the benefit of reading the original post before it was edited but is it possible that the seller's rules and yours are just slightly different and those ugly labels really don't apply? I really think that if any seller spells out his rules we'd avoid all the drama. I'd really like to keep the sand in the sandbox. I'm done with this thread.

Jerry

[gramophone-georg]

FWIW, a long time ago somebody way wiser than I'll ever be advised me that if I refuse to get emotionally involved with anything until it's mine it would add years to my life. I think that's true.

I can see the frustration on both sides here. The actual fact is that sometimes sh!tski happens. When it does, I just walk away, because usually there's a better opportunity around the corner and all of my Sturm und Drang is useless in any case. It's not going to change the outcome. If the person who boinked me is a schmuck, that's his problem he'll need to answer for to someone, somewhere, one day- and not mine. Life's too short.

It sort of begs the question, though... when is an offer "lowball" and when is it "reasonable"? I know there will be all different answers to this, but I'm curious on the consensus, if any.

Second part of that question- does what you consider "reasonable" also hold true if you are a buyer?

To address the idea of an offer higher than asking price... I have done this on occasion. Why? Because the seller is not knowledgeable and I didn't want to take advantage. I've built up a lot of goodwill with a lot of people that way. Offering more money to snipe someone else out of a deal, though, is just underhanded.

[Mlund2020]

I don't believe anyone has done anything wrong here. I think it's the seller's responsibility to lay out the ground rules. In the future I will try to be consistent and say:

" All communication is by Personal Messages here on the Forum. Questions or offers are welcome but they do not imply an item is on hold. The buyer is the first to PM "SOLD!"

Can anyone see a scenario with the above that would allow for any misunderstandings? If so, please explain or give an example. I have been in a situation where I received emails, calls, and personal messages and it was difficult to tell who was first. I want to avoid that situation. Some people are members of the Church of Born Again Tire Kickers and negotiations and questions can drag on and on. I'm not going there. If I receive three personal messages and the first is an offer, the second says "sold" and the third says "sold and I'll give you extra $$", my sale is to the first to say simply "sold." The first offer did not place the item on hold. To accept the extra money from the third party would be unethical on my part.

Since we have no official forum rules, I think it's the responsibility of the seller to plainly write the ground rules in the body of the post. To do any less allows the possibility of personal interpretation leading to misunderstanding and hard feelings. These are avoidable issues.

Respectfully submitted, Jerry Blais

I completely agree with Jerry.

[melvind]

Perhaps enough has been said...