The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Excuses for this, but I use to enlarge holes of swingers to be able to play them properly. I use a large variable bore file that fits at its point into the conventional size hole. Then I start filing the hole to enlarge is size enough to avoid the lateral swing, thus being able to place the record on the spindle slightly miscentered to counteract the swinging movement. Usually a few millimeters is enough, but worst cases are those that swing in a different direction on each side... Most noticeable and upsetting in piano recordings with long sustained notes, but also in choral music.

Inigo wrote:Excuses for this, but I use to enlarge holes of swingers...

I did not know what a "swinger" record was. Especially linking swinger with drilled out spindle holes seemed to be bordering on the perverse. Then I realized that these must be eccentric playing records.

But the term "eccentric" could also be misconstrued.

Maybe the the best solution is to call these records eccentric swingers?

Ha, ha...! These are more common than desired. Murphy's Law operates fully herein. When you're ready to transfer a record, check volume and speed, best stylus, and everything is ready, you notice the wow and must stop to enlarge the spindle hole... During a time I used a Dual 1210 TT and these have a removable spindle, with which there's no need to enlarge holes, for you can place the record wisely miscentered to counteract the swinging movement. But that TT was later discarded in favour of one modern unit with almost infinitely variable speed and other interesting features, a removable spindle not being among these unfortunately...

Governor Flyball wrote:Maybe the the best solution is to call these records eccentric swingers?

Tautologically speaking, yes!

As Inigo says, swingers are frustratingly common - certainly here in the UK they are. EMG used to sell a "centre lock" (I believe that's what it was called, from memory) which was like a thin wedge-shaped peg - presumably one had to ream the record hole out slightly, centre the grooves on the turntable and insert the peg against the spindle to fix the disc in the correct position. Nobody has actually found one of these tiny things and some of us will be ridiculously excited when one turns up!

I've found it unnecessary to lock the record in the mid entered position. The drag on the turntable felt is enough to hold the record during playing even on the grand gramophones. At least it is on a 12” turntable...

One thing I’ve not seen mentioned here are the off-centered Zonophone holes. Many of the seven-inchers that I’ve encountered have these. Has anyone ever found any ten-inch or (crazily) twelve-inch records with such holes?

dennis wrote:One thing I’ve not seen mentioned here are the off-centered Zonophone holes. Many of the seven-inchers that I’ve encountered have these. Has anyone ever found any ten-inch or (crazily) twelve-inch records with such holes?

The "off-center hole" you mention on 7" Zono's was for the spring loaded lug pin in the table. This was Universal's design instead of a record clamp. By the time 10" discs were used, this lug pin was being phased out and simply not need. It was also a common practice in the day for owners of discs by other makers like Berliner and Victor,etc... to be drilled in order to use on their Zonophone.

dennis wrote:One thing I’ve not seen mentioned here are the off-centered Zonophone holes. Many of the seven-inchers that I’ve encountered have these. Has anyone ever found any ten-inch or (crazily) twelve-inch records with such holes?

Here is a 10" Vocalion modified as you mention Dennis. I have been wondering why someone would have done it, and I think you answered my question!.

That extra hole is too near to the centre to be made for one of the intended devices for clamping records, or for those pegs on turntables of certain brands, to avoid playing records of other brands, etc.
It looks like someone experimented with it to play it miscentered, for fun or something...

Frisco The Beagle wrote:

dennis wrote:One thing I’ve not seen mentioned here are the off-centered Zonophone holes. Many of the seven-inchers that I’ve encountered have these. Has anyone ever found any ten-inch or (crazily) twelve-inch records with such holes?

Here is a 10" Vocalion modified as you mention Dennis. I have been wondering why someone would have done it, and I think you answered my question!.

First, the small pin shown on the Zonophone turn table is meant to be spring loaded, (as mentioned above), and to retract when the disc is placed over it. I have seen no Zonophone records with a hole to accommodate that pin. (At least none that I would say were original to the record) Instead, there is a shallow pocket on the underside of the record that the pin engages with. Many times the pin is frozen in place with rust, making it seem non-retractable.

Second, as another has suggested, the "second" off-center hole, as shown in the Vocalion record, was done for fun. My father, who grew up with wind-up phonographs taught me that one and I proceeded to defile many records for the sheer fun of it. It's the audio equivalent of seeing yourself in a fun-house mirror.